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Just watched this while eating. It's half an hour long, so here's a summary: - He owns a 2022 Hyundai ioniq 5, USA version - The brake lights generally work f
by mfalcao 3y ago
Just watched this while eating. It's half an hour long, so here's a summary:
- He owns a 2022 Hyundai ioniq 5, USA version
- The brake lights generally work fine, however when in one-pedal mode (i.e. accelerator does regenerative braking for the first X% of travel) they only activate when the vehicle is about to stop so long as the driver has the accelerator ever slightly depressed
- This is a problem because the regenerative braking is quite strong - he goes from 60 mph/96 kph to 0 in 13 seconds and the stop lights never illuminate
- He thinks this should not be allowed and Hyundai should recall the cars to fix this
- However, in the US this is perfectly legal - regenerative braking is not considered as part of the "service brake", so illuminating the stop lights is not required
- The EU on the other hand just fixed this gap in the law in March, by requiring that stop lights be illuminated whenever the deceleration exceeds 1.3 m/s^2
- jjtheblunt 3y agoOur 2014 BMW i3 lit the brake lights when regenerating...hard to say how firmware changes may have altered this behavior over time, and there were firmware changes for our US based i3, but the Ioniq situation in the post seems like an expensive accident waiting to happen.
- nabla9 3y agoExhaust brakes on truck or engine braking behaves the same way. There can be strong deceleration without brake lights. Deceleration threshold is great solution because it signal what is happening.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoTrucks use exhaust braking because it's quicker than braking using the brakes without overheating. They can get away without brake lights only because the noise makes it obvious when trucks are exhaust or engine braking.
- rcme 3y agoEngine breaking, which any manually car driver uses, does not produce any indication that you're slowing down. Technically, the engine noise is louder, but not enough to notice outside of the car.
- tmerc 3y agoYou can engine brake in any "manumatic" like Subaru with their flappy paddle CVT. You could drive a manual without engine braking more than a normal automatic; nothing forces you to downshift. You could also only up shift and use neutral when braking with actual brakes, which I think a lot of people do when learning manual. Indications that the car in front of you is breaking include brake lights, distance between you and them, and weight transfer to the front (nose down, rear up). Only one of those is affected by the thick pedal.
- rcme 3y agoIt's illegal to drive in neutral. And of course you can engine break in automatic cars, but you're not likely to.
- mrguyorama 3y ago>It's illegal to drive in neutral What law says that?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoDunno about other states, but in Oregon, it is explicitly forbidden to coast in neutral downhill https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_811.495 https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_811.495 > A person commits the offense of unlawful coasting on a downgrade if the person is the driver of a vehicle on a downgrade and the person coasts with the gears or transmission of the motor vehicle in neutral or with the clutch disengaged. However, this only refers to going downhill. It says nothing about approaching a red light or any other scenario where you might consider choosing to coast.
- wahahah 3y agoNote: one-pedal mode slows the car as the accelerator is released.
- savanaly 3y agoI have actually thought about this when driving a Tesla which also has the regenerative braking. Here's what their website says for the record, it sounds like it works exactly how I would want, just depends on the threshold for deceleration they set: """ During regenerative braking, Tesla will still activate the brake lights when the vehicle is slowing down, even if the brakes aren't being used at all. Tesla determines whether to turn on your brake lights based on your vehicle's rate of deceleration. If you're unsure if your brake lights are on, look at your Tesla screen, the car in the display shows the brake lights lit up when the brake lights are activated. [0] """ [0] https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/1051/how-tesla-s-regenerative-braking-works#:~:text=Does%20Regenerative%20Braking%20Activate%20Your,your%20vehicle's%20rate%20of%20deceleration https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/1051/how-tesla-....
- cevn 3y agoYea the Tesla brakes work exactly how you would want. As soon as you start decelerating, even w/ regen, the lights kick in. Not sure how Hyundai messed it up after having an example..
- notdang 3y agoHyundai/Kia will do the minimum necessary to comply with the local laws.
- bigmattystyles 3y agoInteresting, would seem more efficient to comply with as many laws as possible that don't clash and have one configuration, only tweaking for local oddities.
- kylecordes 3y agoI have a complaint about Tesla on this one. In Europe they ship vastly better tail lights with a different color for turn signals. As I understand, the superior signals are acceptable, though not preferred, by US standards. But Tesla makes a separate, different, worse part to use in the US, rather than giving us the good stuff also and reducing their manufacturing variation.
- hinkley 3y agoWe should determine what rate of deceleration counts as 'coasting', and anything beyond that counts as braking.
- FractalParadigm 3y agoUnless said legislation/determination only applies to electric cars, they'll have to give manual ICE vehicles a look-at as well; my TDI for instance can engine brake so well that it behaves very similarly to regenerative braking, and the service brakes get used only where absolutely necessary. Transport trucks with exhaust or Jake brakes and a light(er) loads can get often get away with similar-to-EV single-pedal driving regardless of whether the transmission is automated or not. This might be a hot take, but if you're actually paying attention to driving it's not exactly difficult to see a vehicle decelerating in front of you, brake lights or not.
- hinkley 3y agoI'm only on my second set of brake pads on my TDI and you're right. However in most real driving situations, engaging the engine braking requires feathering the brake long enough to get it to downshift. So while my brakes aren't on the whole time, they are on when I first make myself a problem that needs to be managed.
- mrguyorama 3y ago>engaging the engine braking requires feathering the brake long enough to get it to downshift. What? No, you put in the clutch, pull out of gear into neutral, rev match up to the engine speed for the lower gear, plop the shifter into it, release the clutch. What do you use the friction brakes for? Hell, you can skip the rev matching completely if you don't mind clutch wear and jerkiness.
- FractalParadigm 3y agoEven with a DSG-equipped car like the parent likely has, you can use the "manual" mode ("M" on the shifter) and downshift to as low as the car will allow. This also has the benefit of 'preparing' the transmission for further downshifting, as it will pre-select the next gear down instead of up. My car is indeed a 6MT, and downshifting happens exactly as described.
- dcre 3y agoThank you for the summary. I understand how creators are incentivized by YouTube to produce longer content, but it is a bit ridiculous that this 30 minute video could have been 6 tweets.
- yowzadave 3y agoDo you watch sporting events and say, “why did this take so long? They could have put it into one tweet: the Knicks lost again.”
- estebank 3y agoOf all the YouTubers out there, I wouldn't call out Technology Connections for padding their content. Sure, you can get a short summary of the useful information, but the show is about more than "short collection or facts". It's like saying "it's ridiculous that an episode of Mythbusters is half an hour, you can fit the results in a tweet!"
- thrill 3y agoI would. He repeated his points several times.
- NegativeK 3y agoI give Mythbusters a pass because the padding is intentional entertainment (that I happen to enjoy, obviously). I don't watch TC because the padding doesn't come across as entertaining to me; it feels like a lot more beating around the bush. There's a _lot_ of repetition.
- fragmede 3y agoTo go off on a tangent, someone went and edited Mythbusters episodes to remove the fluff and called it Smyths. There's a torrent of it and it's a way better watch.
- mrguyorama 3y agoI've seen those, and while I understand it, I feel it loses a hell of a lot of the pathos of what mythbusters was. A huge amount of the goodness is the interplay and personality of Adam and Jamie, and it gets lost I think in those edits. Add that to Mythbusters not exactly being scientifically sound, and more like "these TV effects artists build a weird contraption that MAYBE answers a question that isn't well formed". Cutting out the recaps is useful though.
- pmlarocque 3y agoI own a Canadian Ioniq 5 and it is indeed quite dangerous. I have been honked a few times in my year of ownership. Now, I usually release the pedal completely to at least flash the brake light to show people behind me that I am decelerating. But my wife hate the sensation so I usually don't use 1-pedal when I am with her. Which is sad because I really enjoy driving in this mode. I totally agree, when you are decelerating at more than x/(m|k)ph light should come on. On a different matter, first generation car, and there is a huge flaw with a high percentage of Ioniq5/Ev6/Genesis GV, have a ICCU (Integrated Charging Control Unit) failure at around a year of ownership. My car at the dealer for over a month without an ETA on part delivery :(
- gopalv 3y ago> he goes from 60 mph/96 kph to 0 in 13 seconds and the stop lights never illuminate I ride a motorcycle and I give Teslas a lot of cushion when riding behind. They're common enough in the bay area to be treated specially, because of the one pedal driving (my car is set to "creep", but it is still strong at 70mph). The way the car changes speed and the way the Model S looks from behind, it takes a bit of time before you realize it is getting too big in your PoV without lights coming up, particularly as people lift off through turns or highway onramps. The cars which are bigger or higher up like an ID4 or Rivian seem to not suffer from this sort of "hidden width" that the Tesla has, the wheel flares melt into the backdrop when looking at it. I don't think Technology Connections is ever going to drive a Tesla or test it, but the low profile fast cars are much harder to figure out speeds off from parallax without the brake lights.
- stanski 3y agoEngine breaking on a motorcycle can be quite significant as well. I've thought about this being a problem there too.
- tomatotomato37 3y agoDiesels with a J-brake can also decelerate quite abruptly, though in that case there's still a remarkably loud audio queue from the engine compressing
- yial 3y agoIn the safety classes I’ve taken, there’s usually been training (albeit brief) of being aware if others are behind you, but building the habit of using the engine to decelerate that you flash your brake lights and or apply enough brake to trigger them without heavily braking. This was also an issue when I had a larger manual car with a medium size (4.6l) v8. At lower speeds <45mph, it was entirely possible for me to be significantly decelerating using only the engine, where I would make sure to at least flash my brake lights several times.
- thangalin 3y agoMy 2021 Hyundai Kona EV illuminates the brake lights immediately when the regen kicks in. Strange that that's not the default behaviour on the other model.
- kylecordes 3y agoIt's quite annoying that Hyundai got this so wrong, while a long list of other makers got it right. Even without regulators demanding they do so.
- hef19898 3y agoAnd there I was naively thinking the new EU rule existed, and was applied by OEMs, since regenerative breaking is a thing...
- gavaw 3y agoIn manual cars, it's always felt wrong how much and how fast the car can decelerate by changing to lower gears without the brake light turning on - even if you are not technically using the brake, you can lower the speed so much as to create a dangerous situation with the guy coming behind, and therefore turning on the brake light would be appropriate.
- oceanplexian 3y agoIt’s a feature not a bug. Everyone immediately SLAMS the brake when they see a cop and it’s a dead giveaway if you want to get a speeding ticket. Engine braking has saved me more than once because you can slow down without being an immediate target for the cop.
- gnicholas 3y ago> they only activate when the vehicle is about to stop so long as the driver has the accelerator ever slightly depressed Do the brake lights come on if you don't have the accelerator depressed at all?
- twobitshifter 3y agoYes they do, but releasing it all the way is jerky. To fix this, EVs should limit the jerk rate rather than introducing the brake at full power when you release the accelerator. This is how it’s done by most metro trains.
- 908B64B197 3y ago> - He thinks this should not be allowed and Hyundai should recall the cars to fix this Why do a recall? Sounds like it's a simple software fix. Can be deployed over the air.
- shawabawa3 3y agoSoftware fixed are "recalls"
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoYup. Which is why it's so annoying when Tesla recalls hit the news. So many people treat it like a huge event, when really, it's just a small software update.
- bdcravens 3y agoAFAIK eGMP (platform for Ioniq, EV6, GV60) OTA updates are limited to infotainment system - you have to go into the dealership for major system updates. (I have an EV6)