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To skip TSA nonsense you just need to skip TSA nonsense. Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. You have to be on time, you have to ha

To skip TSA nonsense you just need to skip TSA nonsense. Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. You have to be on time, you have to handle the baggage, but you can walk through xray and security within minutes and only need to show the ticket on your phone. An electric wing-in-ground-effect aircraft still looks like an airplane and might still fall under the same regulations as any other airplane. In any case TSA objectively does not add much security[1] and does cause issues e.g. for people who have names with similar spellings to those on a no-fly-list [2]. But that aside, the technology is great for short distance travel. Climbing to 2-5 thousand foot to travel some 50 miles is clearly insane. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration#Criticism_and_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Admini... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#False_positives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#False_positives

yard2010 3y ago
While I agree it's nonsense, I'm curious what would change without harming the personal security of everyone involved? I mean this system has many flaws but no one can steal a plane again and crash it into innocent people right?
- borski 3y ago
  Even if that’s true, which I’m very skeptical of, the TSA has little to do with that. The armored and locked cockpit doors? Sure. Air marshals? Possibly. But the TSA has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a plane gets hijacked. It is far too easy to circumvent.
- macintux 3y ago
  That risk is effectively zero now due to locking cabin doors, to the point where actual pilots are the only ones who deliberately crash planes.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    The irony being that it's exactly those locking doors that allow suicidal pilots to deliberately crash planes.
- mjamesaustin 3y ago
  Modern airport security is beyond useless. It's hugely wasteful and ineffective. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-security https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-s...
  - yafbum 3y ago
    In the past quarter, TSA intercepted an average of 16.8 firearms per day, 93% of which were loaded. I'm quite happy with that many less guns on my flights (imagine what it would be like if there was no check - this is just from people who forgot that carrying onboard is not allowed).
    - dodslaser 3y ago
      People forgetting they are carrying a loaded firearm into an airport feels like a pretty US specific problem, and there are ways to screen for guns without the massive inconvenience that is TSA. Other parts of the world still have security checks at airports, just a lot more efficient.
- beefield 3y ago
  As someone who carries a 20 cm metal rod through airport security every time and has not seen a single warning light ever popping up because of that, it is quite difficult for me to understand how the airport security is supposed to add safety against anyone who is willing to spend any time working around it - and who is motivated. (For the curious, there is a titanium plate in my body due to an accident)
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    Why would a plate in your body set off a warning light? It's not a security risk.
    - sgtnoodle 3y ago
      They can rip off their leg and beat people with it. They should have to check that appendage.
    - beefield 3y ago
      I don't think a typical metal detector can distinguish between metal in my arm and metal taped to my arm.
      - tchaffee 3y ago
        That's why they use the full body scanner at most airport security now. One of those detected a small piece of scrap paper in my back pocket that I had to pull out and show to security. They showed me the image and even the shape of the paper was clear. For sure those scanners can distinguish between metal in your arm and taped to your arm.
        beefield 3y ago
        Okay, haven't been flying that much in tje last few years, I thought they were still not universal - at least in europe.
        3y ago
gaoryrt 3y ago
> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. Not China, I usually try to get to the airport 1 hour before take off. But for the train, 10 minutes is enough.
arcticbull 3y ago
> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. You have to be on time, you have to handle the baggage, but you can walk through xray and security within minutes and only need to show the ticket on your phone. Same if you have Pre and Clear. I usually get to the airport 30-40m early. That said I'm usually at the train station 10m before departure with bags.
- rwmj 3y ago
  Why don't all the bad actors just apply for the same programme?
  - cj 3y ago
    Clear doesn't let you skip security. It basically just allows you to cut to the front of the line for a fee. You still have to go through the x-ray machines, etc. TSA Pre actually does reduce security requirements (e.g. you can keep your shoes on...) in exchange for, I've always assumed, a mini-background check when you apply for the program.
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      > mini-background check when you apply for the program. You'll get fingerprinted, etc., and while it's nothing like a serious security clearance, they do look you up rather thoroughly. Note: my only direct knowledge comes from applying to Global Entry, which is a pickier program, but Precheck does collect biometrics (at least facial and fingerprints). Global Entry was around 15 minutes for the interview process (both formal and informal; I knew the two guys outside the interview and fingerprint room didn't really just want to talk to me to pass the time), but that was a decade ago. One interesting anecdote from my interview is that I was told that the #1 reason Global Entry applications failed at the time was that one of the questions was whether or not you had ever been arrested - not convicted - and people would say no. Not an auto-disqualifier to have been arrested, but lying about it was.
freddie_mercury 3y ago
> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. I live outside the US and this is laughably wrong. How can you collapse the entire world down to "outside the US". Israeli airports are exactly the same as Zimbabwean airports in your worldview? I live in SE Asia and no country around here has air travel "like rail". I cannot get through xray and security in minutes. I cannot just show a ticket on my phone.
- andyjohnson0 3y ago
  I assumed your parent commenter was referring to domestic air travel.
- martyvis 3y ago
  In Australia domestically,you can show your QR code on your phone or print the ticket at home (or even use the kiosks at the airport to print it out). You still need to pass through one set of security screening, but expect the queue (away from holidays and peaks ) to be around 15 minutes.
logdap 3y ago
[dead]
eCa 3y ago
> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. I live in the EU. There is nothing similar. Two hours at the airport being put in several different queues, often in a high stress atmosphere. Train travel: Five-ten minutes at the station, all done. Yes, I’m partial to trains.
kenneth 3y ago
TSA is not required for intra-state travel in the USA. Many rural airports that don't have out of state connections (e.g. most of Alaska) lack TSA.
tchaffee 3y ago
This is factually wrong. Being stuck in a long security line for a flight in Europe or S. America is not unusual.

yard2010 3y ago

While I agree it's nonsense, I'm curious what would change without harming the personal security of everyone involved? I mean this system has many flaws but no one can steal a plane again and crash it into innocent people right?

borski 3y ago
Even if that’s true, which I’m very skeptical of, the TSA has little to do with that. The armored and locked cockpit doors? Sure. Air marshals? Possibly. But the TSA has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a plane gets hijacked. It is far too easy to circumvent.
macintux 3y ago
That risk is effectively zero now due to locking cabin doors, to the point where actual pilots are the only ones who deliberately crash planes.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  The irony being that it's exactly those locking doors that allow suicidal pilots to deliberately crash planes.
mjamesaustin 3y ago
Modern airport security is beyond useless. It's hugely wasteful and ineffective. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-security https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-s...
- yafbum 3y ago
  In the past quarter, TSA intercepted an average of 16.8 firearms per day, 93% of which were loaded. I'm quite happy with that many less guns on my flights (imagine what it would be like if there was no check - this is just from people who forgot that carrying onboard is not allowed).
  - dodslaser 3y ago
    People forgetting they are carrying a loaded firearm into an airport feels like a pretty US specific problem, and there are ways to screen for guns without the massive inconvenience that is TSA. Other parts of the world still have security checks at airports, just a lot more efficient.
beefield 3y ago
As someone who carries a 20 cm metal rod through airport security every time and has not seen a single warning light ever popping up because of that, it is quite difficult for me to understand how the airport security is supposed to add safety against anyone who is willing to spend any time working around it - and who is motivated. (For the curious, there is a titanium plate in my body due to an accident)
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Why would a plate in your body set off a warning light? It's not a security risk.
  - sgtnoodle 3y ago
    They can rip off their leg and beat people with it. They should have to check that appendage.
  - beefield 3y ago
    I don't think a typical metal detector can distinguish between metal in my arm and metal taped to my arm.
    - tchaffee 3y ago
      That's why they use the full body scanner at most airport security now. One of those detected a small piece of scrap paper in my back pocket that I had to pull out and show to security. They showed me the image and even the shape of the paper was clear. For sure those scanners can distinguish between metal in your arm and taped to your arm.
      - beefield 3y ago
        Okay, haven't been flying that much in tje last few years, I thought they were still not universal - at least in europe.
        3y ago

gaoryrt 3y ago

> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. Not China, I usually try to get to the airport 1 hour before take off. But for the train, 10 minutes is enough.

arcticbull 3y ago

> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. You have to be on time, you have to handle the baggage, but you can walk through xray and security within minutes and only need to show the ticket on your phone. Same if you have Pre and Clear. I usually get to the airport 30-40m early. That said I'm usually at the train station 10m before departure with bags.

rwmj 3y ago
Why don't all the bad actors just apply for the same programme?
- cj 3y ago
  Clear doesn't let you skip security. It basically just allows you to cut to the front of the line for a fee. You still have to go through the x-ray machines, etc. TSA Pre actually does reduce security requirements (e.g. you can keep your shoes on...) in exchange for, I've always assumed, a mini-background check when you apply for the program.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    > mini-background check when you apply for the program. You'll get fingerprinted, etc., and while it's nothing like a serious security clearance, they do look you up rather thoroughly. Note: my only direct knowledge comes from applying to Global Entry, which is a pickier program, but Precheck does collect biometrics (at least facial and fingerprints). Global Entry was around 15 minutes for the interview process (both formal and informal; I knew the two guys outside the interview and fingerprint room didn't really just want to talk to me to pass the time), but that was a decade ago. One interesting anecdote from my interview is that I was told that the #1 reason Global Entry applications failed at the time was that one of the questions was whether or not you had ever been arrested - not convicted - and people would say no. Not an auto-disqualifier to have been arrested, but lying about it was.

freddie_mercury 3y ago

> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. I live outside the US and this is laughably wrong. How can you collapse the entire world down to "outside the US". Israeli airports are exactly the same as Zimbabwean airports in your worldview? I live in SE Asia and no country around here has air travel "like rail". I cannot get through xray and security in minutes. I cannot just show a ticket on my phone.

andyjohnson0 3y ago
I assumed your parent commenter was referring to domestic air travel.
martyvis 3y ago
In Australia domestically,you can show your QR code on your phone or print the ticket at home (or even use the kiosks at the airport to print it out). You still need to pass through one set of security screening, but expect the queue (away from holidays and peaks ) to be around 15 minutes.

logdap 3y ago

[dead]

eCa 3y ago

> Outside of the US airtravel is still relatively similar to rail. I live in the EU. There is nothing similar. Two hours at the airport being put in several different queues, often in a high stress atmosphere. Train travel: Five-ten minutes at the station, all done. Yes, I’m partial to trains.

kenneth 3y ago

TSA is not required for intra-state travel in the USA. Many rural airports that don't have out of state connections (e.g. most of Alaska) lack TSA.

tchaffee 3y ago

This is factually wrong. Being stuck in a long security line for a flight in Europe or S. America is not unusual.