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I think that's the best explanation of the current situation in Europe. Just look at Germany, biggest economy in EU. It's treating it's migrant workers as slav

I think that's the best explanation of the current situation in Europe. Just look at Germany, biggest economy in EU. It's treating it's migrant workers as slaves. Feeding failing pension system from them. Not giving any rights for innovation(you can't start business without German national cofounder) or even any motivation to innovate(high taxes, anti-success culture, strict residence laws). When you mention any problems with Germany to Germans, they're so protective and unwilling to change that their only response is "go back home if you don't like it here".

TulliusCicero 3y ago
> When you mention any problems with Germany to Germans, they're so protective and unwilling to change that their only response is "go back home if you don't like it here". Lived in Germany for five years, 100% agree with this. The Germany Defense Squad is very real. Germans are way pricklier about criticism of their country compared to Americans, which surprised me somewhat, given Americans' reputation for superpatriotism. That's not to say you won't ever see the same kind response from some Americans (especially those further right), but what surprised me is that even centrist or center-left Germans of the kind you'll see on Reddit were so defensive, while centrist and center-left Americans are practically lashing themselves with a cat o' nine tails over how dumb the US is on many issues, and heartily agreeing with foreigners on criticism.
awesomeMilou 3y ago
> you can't start business without German national cofounder That's an outright lie, you need a Visa though if you're not a citizen from a Schengen country. > strict residence laws Ever tried to get a Greencard? And if you have the financial backing, up until the start of the Ukraine war there were plenty of states with a golden visa program. I think you're being too harsh on german and european policymakers. I agree, the climate for startups is abysmal and the room for improvement is huge, but in terms of being inclusive EU is leading over the US.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Completely delusional European mentality to think that it is more inclusive than the US. Only a native European would say such a thing. The US is an inclusive haven compared to most of western Europe especially for immigrants and foreigners. Your comment further below about "why not migrate if you don't like germany" encompasses that mentality perfectly well. Now, you are right in a way that it is a choice to migrate there. My issue is with the weird belief that Europe is more inclusive when it is just false. It's like another manifestation of the quintessentially european inferiority complex that leads to comparisons with a weird, exaggerated caricature of what they think the US is. The truth is that Germany is less inclusive, provides less opportunities and is more xenophobic in almost all regards than America, unless I guess you are a white European migrant.
  - awesomeMilou 3y ago
    I believe my question is warranted. If you do experience blatant xenophobia and the opportunities are scarce to none, why endure? I seriously don't understand. The remainder of you comment is a pretty one sided take. I think the US and EU don't give each other much if you want to migrate from outside the Schengen area. I'm not a fan of my governments current policy on migration, nor that of the EU, but the truth is, until a large portion of voters dies, I'm limited in what I can do about it.
- GrigoriyMikh 3y ago
  > you need a Visa though if you're not a citizen from a Schengen country Ok, let me be clear. I have a temporary residence in Germany. Before, i had a worker visa. I'm not allowed to start my own business with temporary residence here. Only if i have a German co-founder. > but in terms of being inclusive EU is leading over the US I'm not 100% sure about US. Although, i have 3 friends there who don't experience problems that i have in Europe. But in Germany, specifically, banking and government bureaucracy machine became outright nationalistic. My bank account have been blocked because of my nationality. I had problems when i was changing my registration address, because of my nationality. No i'm struggling with tax office(changing my tax class) because of my nationality(specifically, i have some papers from my country). And i heard similar complains about Spain and Poland(it's actually refusing to give worker visas to Russians, even if they already reside in EU). EU is pure nazi at this point. But majority of people ignore it, because it's, apparently, not nazi to be against Russians at this moment.

TulliusCicero 3y ago

> When you mention any problems with Germany to Germans, they're so protective and unwilling to change that their only response is "go back home if you don't like it here". Lived in Germany for five years, 100% agree with this. The Germany Defense Squad is very real. Germans are way pricklier about criticism of their country compared to Americans, which surprised me somewhat, given Americans' reputation for superpatriotism. That's not to say you won't ever see the same kind response from some Americans (especially those further right), but what surprised me is that even centrist or center-left Germans of the kind you'll see on Reddit were so defensive, while centrist and center-left Americans are practically lashing themselves with a cat o' nine tails over how dumb the US is on many issues, and heartily agreeing with foreigners on criticism.

awesomeMilou 3y ago

> you can't start business without German national cofounder That's an outright lie, you need a Visa though if you're not a citizen from a Schengen country. > strict residence laws Ever tried to get a Greencard? And if you have the financial backing, up until the start of the Ukraine war there were plenty of states with a golden visa program. I think you're being too harsh on german and european policymakers. I agree, the climate for startups is abysmal and the room for improvement is huge, but in terms of being inclusive EU is leading over the US.

mardifoufs 3y ago
Completely delusional European mentality to think that it is more inclusive than the US. Only a native European would say such a thing. The US is an inclusive haven compared to most of western Europe especially for immigrants and foreigners. Your comment further below about "why not migrate if you don't like germany" encompasses that mentality perfectly well. Now, you are right in a way that it is a choice to migrate there. My issue is with the weird belief that Europe is more inclusive when it is just false. It's like another manifestation of the quintessentially european inferiority complex that leads to comparisons with a weird, exaggerated caricature of what they think the US is. The truth is that Germany is less inclusive, provides less opportunities and is more xenophobic in almost all regards than America, unless I guess you are a white European migrant.
- awesomeMilou 3y ago
  I believe my question is warranted. If you do experience blatant xenophobia and the opportunities are scarce to none, why endure? I seriously don't understand. The remainder of you comment is a pretty one sided take. I think the US and EU don't give each other much if you want to migrate from outside the Schengen area. I'm not a fan of my governments current policy on migration, nor that of the EU, but the truth is, until a large portion of voters dies, I'm limited in what I can do about it.
GrigoriyMikh 3y ago
> you need a Visa though if you're not a citizen from a Schengen country Ok, let me be clear. I have a temporary residence in Germany. Before, i had a worker visa. I'm not allowed to start my own business with temporary residence here. Only if i have a German co-founder. > but in terms of being inclusive EU is leading over the US I'm not 100% sure about US. Although, i have 3 friends there who don't experience problems that i have in Europe. But in Germany, specifically, banking and government bureaucracy machine became outright nationalistic. My bank account have been blocked because of my nationality. I had problems when i was changing my registration address, because of my nationality. No i'm struggling with tax office(changing my tax class) because of my nationality(specifically, i have some papers from my country). And i heard similar complains about Spain and Poland(it's actually refusing to give worker visas to Russians, even if they already reside in EU). EU is pure nazi at this point. But majority of people ignore it, because it's, apparently, not nazi to be against Russians at this moment.