4 ms·

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's in

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

josefx 3y ago
Only if you assume a road network of infinite size which goods and various services can traverse without any interference from private car owners. Which a short look at any given city during peak hours should disprove and those roads are not free either.
hannob 3y ago
If you take the train and not the car, you cause a lot less externalities.
- BasedGroyper99 3y ago
  It may be the case that I cause a lot less externalities, but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good. If I visited my friend by using a motorcycle, I'd cause less externalities too, but I don't think motorcycles are public goods. Same with scooters, e-bikes and normal bikes.
  - werlrndkis 3y ago
    Because reality requires these things of us but we should minimize the impact. You’re just stringing words together to look smart; physical reality calls the shots. Your attempt to conjure some immutable truth in Anglo gibberish is banal
  - yazaddaruvala 3y ago
    > but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good You happen to be misconstruing the two definitions of "public good": > a commodity or service that is provided without profit to all members of a society, either by the government or a private individual or organization. > the benefit or well-being of the public. As such, something can be a "public good" without being "a benefit". [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=public+goods&si=AMnBZoHHbOutTeyKulMCLx-wDNoB7s9s0snQIw9ddzZtuuexc9E1n02IsBR7-FCyozph-WbudH4iCoJyrWqGsPnnQTFEfcwmJhIiZK2RFlue2F8IW8ZErtE%3D https://www.google.com/search?q=public+goods&si=AMnBZoHHbOut...
    - BasedGroyper99 3y ago
      I don't think I'm misconstruing these two definitions, because I didn't talk about the definitions you just brought up. I also think it is quite clear that I'm talking about what the government should or shouldn't provide, not what some specific government currently is providing.
ben_w 3y ago
Public parks you don't sit in are still public goods; public litter bins are still public goods even if you never have anything to put into them; public roads are still a public good even if you don't own a vehicle. Likewise, if you want them to be, so is public transport. Though, here's a question: I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport — is that just my observations being weird, or is that a true distinction? And if genuine, why?
- dsfyu404ed 3y ago
  [dead]
- rippercushions 3y ago
  People usually distinguish between local and long-distance travel, nobody is arguing that bullet trains should be free and planes fall into the same category. The fact that long-distance highways tend to be free speaks more to politics than logic, and there are a few notable exceptions (eg Japan) where all expressways are tolled.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Highways are also tolled in Italy and I think France, its not that exceptional. And in Switzerland for example you just pay a really high gas tax that funds the highway, plus you have to pay a one time fee and get a sticker, otherwise you are not allowed to drive on the highway.
- BasedGroyper99 3y ago
  >public parks, public litter bins, public roads These examples are permanent things, that only need to be maintained, and it's easier to just let the government handle them instead of letting the individual pay or having a subscription model or something alike. Also: all the public goods you mentioned cannot be managed by any single individual, that's why they are in the public hand, but it only goes so far as your activity is in "public range". You can't pave your own roads, you can't carry a trash can with you wherever you go and you can't play football in your house. That's why the government gives you roads, parks and trash cans. But: it is not allowed to put your house trash into a public bin. Or have a barbecue in the public park, or block the roads for a protest. I think using the train is more like using the car. I can agree that the tracks are a public good, but actually using the train is clearly different from that. Just like the government provides me roads, but not with rides. > I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport I guess my framework fits that, because while you may need to maintain the air and the airport, the individual flights only help the individual person.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Public transit gets the workers to where they need to go to serve you at your Starbucks, your Target, your luxury hotels, you name it. Public transit gets consumers to the mall and other shopping areas where they can circulate their hard-earned cash in a capitalist economic system. Public transit gets individual cars off the road, increases safety of those roads, and makes everybody's transportation more efficient.
Hasnep 3y ago
By that logic, why is anything a public good? If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest?
- BasedGroyper99 3y ago
  > If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest? If there were no fountain, then many people would get water bottles and that's too big of a hassle. Defining a public good is quite hard, and any definition will most likely other controversial terms like "reasonably" or "foreseeable" in them. However, I think a public good is something that can be shared by many people in reasonable amounts, and that cannot reasonably be attained by the average individual. It is usually characterized by its scale. So for example, you can't build your own park, but you can use the public park without blasting your music on max volume.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    > If there were no fountain, then many people would get water bottles and that's too big of a hassle. Right, and if there was no public transit, then many more people would need to buy and drive cars, and that's not great for the public's interest either.
    - BasedGroyper99 3y ago
      But a fountain is something that naturally occurs. It is used in that way because it gives more water than anyone can use, but enough water for everyone in reasonable amounts. It's not just some kind of lesser evil. Trains and railroads must first be built and maintained, they are on the same level as roads and busses. I think there is a difference between providing the opportunity and giving things out for free.
      - Hasnep 3y ago
        You're saying public transport is on the same level as roads. Most roads are free to use because they're maintained with tax money, just like free public transport would be, because they're both in the public's interest.
danaris 3y ago
This is a very individualistic and American view of what a "public good" should be.
- BasedGroyper99 3y ago
  I'm neither an individualist nor an American. I'm actually from Germany and experienced how the 3 months of Deutschlandticket affected the people around me.
kelnos 3y ago
Most public goods don't benefit everyone equally; that's never the case, and that's fine. My house has never been on fire (knock on wood), but I'm perfectly happy that my taxes pay for a fire department. I don't often use the park up the street that's currently undergoing a massive renovation/rebuild, but I'm happy that my taxes are paying for the renovation. I don't drive on every single road in the city, but I'm glad my tax dollars make it possible for people to get around even in places where I don't need to go. I don't have kids (and don't plan to), but I'm happy that the taxes I pay go toward educating the kids who live here. Many public transit agencies are run at a loss; I'm absolutely fine with my tax dollars making up the difference. From there it's just a matter of degree: is it fully funded by taxes, or still partially funded by fare revenue? I'd be fine with the former, too.
urbandw311er 3y ago
It’s in the public interest because we want you to choose a greener more sustainable transport option, such as the train.
wunderland 3y ago
Why should we all pay for roads and bridges? I don’t have a car. Why should the government pay for hospitals? I’m not sick.
lozenge 3y ago
If you're a business it will help you if you can select employees or receive customers from a large geographical region. As the economy and all public services depend on businesses, that's the public interest.

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

josefx 3y ago

Only if you assume a road network of infinite size which goods and various services can traverse without any interference from private car owners. Which a short look at any given city during peak hours should disprove and those roads are not free either.

hannob 3y ago

If you take the train and not the car, you cause a lot less externalities.

BasedGroyper99 3y ago
It may be the case that I cause a lot less externalities, but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good. If I visited my friend by using a motorcycle, I'd cause less externalities too, but I don't think motorcycles are public goods. Same with scooters, e-bikes and normal bikes.
- werlrndkis 3y ago
  Because reality requires these things of us but we should minimize the impact. You’re just stringing words together to look smart; physical reality calls the shots. Your attempt to conjure some immutable truth in Anglo gibberish is banal
- yazaddaruvala 3y ago
  > but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good You happen to be misconstruing the two definitions of "public good": > a commodity or service that is provided without profit to all members of a society, either by the government or a private individual or organization. > the benefit or well-being of the public. As such, something can be a "public good" without being "a benefit". [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=public+goods&si=AMnBZoHHbOutTeyKulMCLx-wDNoB7s9s0snQIw9ddzZtuuexc9E1n02IsBR7-FCyozph-WbudH4iCoJyrWqGsPnnQTFEfcwmJhIiZK2RFlue2F8IW8ZErtE%3D https://www.google.com/search?q=public+goods&si=AMnBZoHHbOut...
  - BasedGroyper99 3y ago
    I don't think I'm misconstruing these two definitions, because I didn't talk about the definitions you just brought up. I also think it is quite clear that I'm talking about what the government should or shouldn't provide, not what some specific government currently is providing.

ben_w 3y ago

Public parks you don't sit in are still public goods; public litter bins are still public goods even if you never have anything to put into them; public roads are still a public good even if you don't own a vehicle. Likewise, if you want them to be, so is public transport. Though, here's a question: I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport — is that just my observations being weird, or is that a true distinction? And if genuine, why?

dsfyu404ed 3y ago
[dead]
rippercushions 3y ago
People usually distinguish between local and long-distance travel, nobody is arguing that bullet trains should be free and planes fall into the same category. The fact that long-distance highways tend to be free speaks more to politics than logic, and there are a few notable exceptions (eg Japan) where all expressways are tolled.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Highways are also tolled in Italy and I think France, its not that exceptional. And in Switzerland for example you just pay a really high gas tax that funds the highway, plus you have to pay a one time fee and get a sticker, otherwise you are not allowed to drive on the highway.
BasedGroyper99 3y ago
>public parks, public litter bins, public roads These examples are permanent things, that only need to be maintained, and it's easier to just let the government handle them instead of letting the individual pay or having a subscription model or something alike. Also: all the public goods you mentioned cannot be managed by any single individual, that's why they are in the public hand, but it only goes so far as your activity is in "public range". You can't pave your own roads, you can't carry a trash can with you wherever you go and you can't play football in your house. That's why the government gives you roads, parks and trash cans. But: it is not allowed to put your house trash into a public bin. Or have a barbecue in the public park, or block the roads for a protest. I think using the train is more like using the car. I can agree that the tracks are a public good, but actually using the train is clearly different from that. Just like the government provides me roads, but not with rides. > I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport I guess my framework fits that, because while you may need to maintain the air and the airport, the individual flights only help the individual person.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Public transit gets the workers to where they need to go to serve you at your Starbucks, your Target, your luxury hotels, you name it. Public transit gets consumers to the mall and other shopping areas where they can circulate their hard-earned cash in a capitalist economic system. Public transit gets individual cars off the road, increases safety of those roads, and makes everybody's transportation more efficient.

Hasnep 3y ago

By that logic, why is anything a public good? If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest?

BasedGroyper99 3y ago
> If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest? If there were no fountain, then many people would get water bottles and that's too big of a hassle. Defining a public good is quite hard, and any definition will most likely other controversial terms like "reasonably" or "foreseeable" in them. However, I think a public good is something that can be shared by many people in reasonable amounts, and that cannot reasonably be attained by the average individual. It is usually characterized by its scale. So for example, you can't build your own park, but you can use the public park without blasting your music on max volume.
- kelnos 3y ago
  > If there were no fountain, then many people would get water bottles and that's too big of a hassle. Right, and if there was no public transit, then many more people would need to buy and drive cars, and that's not great for the public's interest either.
  - BasedGroyper99 3y ago
    But a fountain is something that naturally occurs. It is used in that way because it gives more water than anyone can use, but enough water for everyone in reasonable amounts. It's not just some kind of lesser evil. Trains and railroads must first be built and maintained, they are on the same level as roads and busses. I think there is a difference between providing the opportunity and giving things out for free.
    - Hasnep 3y ago
      You're saying public transport is on the same level as roads. Most roads are free to use because they're maintained with tax money, just like free public transport would be, because they're both in the public's interest.

danaris 3y ago

This is a very individualistic and American view of what a "public good" should be.

BasedGroyper99 3y ago
I'm neither an individualist nor an American. I'm actually from Germany and experienced how the 3 months of Deutschlandticket affected the people around me.

kelnos 3y ago

Most public goods don't benefit everyone equally; that's never the case, and that's fine. My house has never been on fire (knock on wood), but I'm perfectly happy that my taxes pay for a fire department. I don't often use the park up the street that's currently undergoing a massive renovation/rebuild, but I'm happy that my taxes are paying for the renovation. I don't drive on every single road in the city, but I'm glad my tax dollars make it possible for people to get around even in places where I don't need to go. I don't have kids (and don't plan to), but I'm happy that the taxes I pay go toward educating the kids who live here. Many public transit agencies are run at a loss; I'm absolutely fine with my tax dollars making up the difference. From there it's just a matter of degree: is it fully funded by taxes, or still partially funded by fare revenue? I'd be fine with the former, too.

urbandw311er 3y ago

It’s in the public interest because we want you to choose a greener more sustainable transport option, such as the train.

wunderland 3y ago

Why should we all pay for roads and bridges? I don’t have a car. Why should the government pay for hospitals? I’m not sick.

lozenge 3y ago

If you're a business it will help you if you can select employees or receive customers from a large geographical region. As the economy and all public services depend on businesses, that's the public interest.