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I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This w
by apnew 3y ago
I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me.
This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.
- crooked-v 3y agoI suspect you're conflating resistance cooktops (the kind with coils that heat up) and induction cooktops (which use EM fields to transfer energy directly into the pan). Resistance cooktops are slow and weak, but induction cooktops are just plain better than gas (faster to heat across the entire temperature range, better temperature control) in pretty much every case except when needing a pan that doesn't fit the induction plate (like a round-bottom wok).
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoAnd if the government mandates electric stoves, which of those (restive or inductive) do you think the landlords of cheaper apartments are going to pick?
- freetime2 3y agoAnecdotal, but in my cheap apartment (like $300/mo) there is an induction stove. This is not in New York, of course, but still it couldn’t have been that expensive to install.
- rayiner 3y agoYeah, and if you’re talking about poor people, what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction? And will they have induction safe cookware? Banning gas stoves would be a huge blow to all the immigrants who rely on cooking techniques (like woks) that don’t work well on resistance coils, and require expensive special equipment to work on induction.
- tptacek 3y agoPeople in China routinely use woks on electric stoves; they're just as common in China as they are here. There's a lot of mythology about woks and wok hei, most of which is based on people confusing restaurant cooking techniques with home cooking. This issue isn't racially coded.
- Freedom2 3y agoThis is my experience as well. I've spoken to Chinese co-workers who cook a lot of traditional food at home, and they have zero issues with electric stoves (induction or no) for cooking with a wok. As for those who claim that gas stoves are needed for wok cooking w/ specific techniques, most people who I've actually asked about what they cook on the wok is basically "fried rice", or even worse, they don't actually have a wok at all, and are using the issue as a strawman to complain about government overreach.
- tptacek 3y agoFor what it's worth: I have a fussy gas range and I'd be peeved to have to give it up, and I don't have an opinion about whether it's good or bad to require new construction to use induction. But the racial angle on this is risible. It's evidence of bad faith argument.
- otterley 3y agoInduction cooktops are like 3-5x the cost of resistive ones, and so very few homes for rent -even ones with electric cooktops - have them.
- lostlogin 3y agoAre they? New Zealand is ludicrous marked up in terms of consumer goods, and I’ve just checked pricing. The cheapest is resistive electric. Then fractionally more is gas. Induction costs approximately double for 4 hobs (for 2 hobs it’s about 50% more than resistive). If you count installation, both electric options are going to be less expensive than gas. If the big cable needs running for induction, the cost might be similar to gas. Not factored in, cleaning. My god is induction nice to maintain.
- wepple 3y agoGas is rare and expensive in NZ, I knew very few people who had it. In NYC every house does. My clothes dryer runs off gas. It’s dirt cheap.
- teruakohatu 3y agoGas cooktops were very popular and are still common in New Zealand. It used to be legal (within building code) to run a small 9kg gas bottle (BBQ size) under your cooktop in a kitchen cupboard, so very cheap to install. Resistive cooktops were and are pretty aweful. Gas indoors is now considered a health hazard even with range hood, and while you can still buy gas cooktops, I haven't seen a new build with gas in a long time.
- Wowfunhappy 3y agoI'm actually so confused about this. When I was in college, I bought a portable induction cooker off Amazon for $60. It was the best. I could boil a large pot of water in about the same time as the gas stove I had at home. (I never timed it, but it felt basically the same.) I could have bought four of those induction cookers for less than $250. If I ever built a house (I currently rent an apartment and am stuck with gas), I would at least be tempted to literally do that, instead of spending the money on a "real" cooking range. Why are full ranges so expensive?
- eulgro 3y ago> Resistance cooktops are slow and weak Resistive is just fine. No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water. Once the coil is red hot there's virtually no time difference with induction.
- dan-robertson 3y agoI think the reason people usually don’t like resistive cooktops is that they change temperature slowly so it is hard to adjust things to the right temperature.
- YurgenJurgensen 3y agoAlso they're capable of melting dark coloured soft plastic with radiant heat even when they've been switched off.
- cmclaughlin 3y agoThey also transfer heat to the house, whereas induction does not. Huge benefit in hotter climates
- lostlogin 3y agoI’d challenge anything to a race with a decent induction cooktop. I doubt gas is quicker, it’s silly fast to boil water. That said, upgrading for this reason would be very silly.
- vel0city 3y ago> No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water A normal electric stove isn't even going to be two minutes slower to boil. Depending on the stoves in question, the resistive stove might even be faster to a boil than the gas stove, even if the gas stove is rated for more BTUs.
- zajio1am 3y ago> induction cooktops are just plain better than gas I generally prefer induction to gas, but there is one disadvantage - uneven heating of large thin pans. On induction, a part of pan directly above coils can be > 50 degC hotter than its border. This can be mitigated by using pans with thick bottom with good heat conductivity, but then you get higher thermal inertia.
- op00to 3y agoGas heats large thin pans unevenly too.
- swearwolf 3y agoResistance cooktops are fine too, you just have to learn to adjust to them. I’ve had one in all but one home I’ve ever lived in, and it’s second nature at this point. Every time I try to cook on a gas stove I burn whatever I’m making until I remember how to use them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- desmosxxx 3y agorequire them in rentals?
- lostlogin 3y agoDo you really think you can tell the difference between food cooked with electricity and food cooked with gas?
- ramraj07 3y agoI am pro banning gas stoves but that doesn’t mean electric is great. Electric sucks ass, even ignoring some things you just cannot do without gas (like make proper rotis) their heating is slow and uneven. At the least induction is fast.
- foepys 3y agoNot to invalidate your point (because I have never made rotis) but this suspiciously sounds like you need better cookware.
- ramraj07 3y agoThere’s definitely a level of confidently-incorrect cringe here. Please tell me how I should do this https://youtu.be/lsI08y6jwaQ https://youtu.be/lsI08y6jwaQ with better cookware.
- ihateyouall123 3y agoThis whole thread is a bunch of losers who sit in front of computers trying to understand cooking through the science they learned in front of their computer. Maybe try to cook first?
- dghlsakjg 3y ago“Confidently incorrect” indeed: https://youtu.be/sZQY0Pe7cf8 https://youtu.be/sZQY0Pe7cf8
- geoduck14 3y agoOooooh. Now I want some Chicken Tiki Masala.
- alex_lav 3y ago...isn't "but i like my food cooked on the other kind" just the same thing you're arguing against?
- apnew 3y agoBut I am not taking a position that govt bans the other side's fav style, am I now?
- alex_lav 3y agoShould legislation include science and fact-less personal preference?
- apnew 3y agoWhere did I say that? I’m saying there is no need for restricting gas range installations via legislation. If the goal is to fight health risks there’s way to mitigate those risks scientifically in other ways that allows people to keep their preferences. Just saying “science” in a sentence doesn’t make your point scientifically valid, we don’t need to turn science into religion.
- alex_lav 3y agoBut...replace gas range with seatbelts or smoking cigarettes indoors and you're repeating exactly the argument that was made while that legislation was happening. "We can't add legislation because I like the dangerous thing"
- apnew 3y agoIf I were to take your examples; range hood is the seatbelt; what this legislation is doing is telling driving “too unsafe; everyone must take train”. Or too take cigarettes example; ban cigarette sales completely instead of banning smoking indoors. I hope you see the nuance now.
- kleiba 3y agoThis is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.
- uwagar 3y agoi like to roast my aubergine for babaganoush on an open flame. try that on an induction cooker and let me know?
- yunohn 3y agoI assume you make non-roasted dishes as well? I’d like to say the majority of dishes don’t need a flame - but I’m sure you would provide a list of exceptions.
- DocTomoe 3y agoWhy have a heating unit for food at all if we can all survive on gruel at room temperature? "You don't need it, so you can't have it" is a dangerous argument.
- yunohn 3y agoKindly do not make ad-absurdum arguments. My point is that you need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. Some individuals wanting baba-ganoush in NY should not be the reason to avoid electrification for the others. I appreciate that forced illegalisation is off-putting, but like others have said, renters don’t get a choice and landlords will avoid all expenditures. We need a way to help the majority wean off gas.
- DocTomoe 3y ago> Some individuals wanting baba-ganoush in NY should not be the reason to avoid electrification for the others. What stops the others from having an electric stove, while natural gas infrastructure is still available? Are there living units in NY that have natural gas, but no electricity? > renters don’t get a choice Electric stovetops are about 30 dollars for two-plate solutions, if you decide for yourself that natural gas is not for you.
- jjj123 3y agoThe parent’s comment was also saying that gas stoves are essentially a forced choice on poor people who don’t have many options when looking for a place to rent. Just because you theoretically have more choice in a free market doesn’t mean you actually do, depending on how desperate you are.
- apnew 3y agoWell then the solution is to mandate a hood that cleans the said toxic gas/es out. And if we were being serious at all; there is always a habitability clause in the rental agreements which can be used to mandate the hoods where gas ranges exists. No new laws/regulations needed. But those would be too good of solutions and spoil the current sneaky plan. Too many goal posts are shifting for justifying a performative-feel-good-climate fight (the point the top-level comment is trying to make). There is no pure free-market anywhere (and it's a good thing). Let's not justify govt overreach in the garb of imperfect market-capitalism.
- AustinDev 3y agoHave you ever used induction? Electric induction is the best cooktop I've ever owned, and I was a staunch only gas person beforehand. Plus I can boil water on it faster than is possible in any gas stove @ 5kW (on the 'power' element). It can do a gallon of water in ~ 4 minutes from room temperature or a liter in about a minute it's pretty awesome.
- apnew 3y agoI have; while your/everyone’s point in this thread is valid there are some food items that just cant be made same way on electric cooktops. eg : https://www.alamy.com/preparingindian-rotifulkachapati-puffed-in-gas-indian-food-indian-dish-indian-cuisine-image347690531.html https://www.alamy.com/preparingindian-rotifulkachapati-puffe... I have lived with induction cooktop (in Europe) for 3 yrs and resistive cooktops (in US) for ~3yrs as well.