6 ms·

I hear this argument often, but I haven't heard a convincing argument. Why? Lack of storage? No. Lack of computing power or RAM? No. Then?

by qtzfz 3y ago

bombolo 3y ago
>Lack of storage? No. Why no? Not every machine is your 32GB RAM machine… If it has to run on a slower machine… say a raspberry pi with a slow flash drive and a slow external drive accessed over USB… being much smaller means speed. > Lack of computing power or RAM? No. Why no? Yes. We have had multitasking operating systems for a while now. Electron apps are tolerable because they are few. If every single application was done with electron, it'd be worse than windows95 on a 486. They still sell lots of computers with 8GB of RAM, although I'm sure your one has at least 2x, probably 4x as much. > Then? Then, with incorrect assumptions you can reach any result that you desire, but it is meaningless.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  > If it has to run on a slower machine… say a raspberry pi with a slow flash drive and a slow external drive accessed over USB This runs a web browser no problem. No need for 32GB of RAM It'd be hard to find some hardware today that runs Qt and not a web browser that's significantly cheaper (and will just make your development costs higher) Electron is an issue but nobody is using that for embedded > Then, with incorrect assumptions you can reach any result that you desire, but it is meaningless. Exactly
  - bombolo 3y ago
    > Electron is an issue but nobody is using that for embedded Qt works fine on embedded. Quite popular there. > This runs a web browser no problem. No need for 32GB of RAM Yes, 1 web browser with a minimal no js page. But 10 at the same time? 20? Animated stuff in it?
robinsonb5 3y ago
Embedding an entire web browser is the software equivalent of shipping a tiny part in a 2 foot cube box, or putting three layers of non-recyclable packaging on vegetables. Storage might be cheap, but storage you already have is free. I have a drawer full of old hard drives - all perfectly functional, but not useful because software footprint has exploded in recent years. Embedding a full web browser isn't the only offender, of course - the various types of container systems are another. And that's without mentioning deployment: It's easy to take a fast, high-quality always-on internet connection for granted, but there are many, many people who don't have that, or use mobile plans with strict data limits.
rychco 3y ago
Yes to all the above, actually. Using Electron as an example, applications are often >100MB in size, consume >100MB memory on the low end, & (subjectively) perform badly enough that I can easily feel and perceive the delay between interaction-response. Very very wasteful.
korijn 3y ago
Just because you have access to powerful hardware doesn't mean others have as well. They have perfectly fine and adequate computers, until we started wrapping everything in electron. Now they have to spend their hard-earned money, and contribute to global electronic waste and resource consumption issues, just to be able to participate in society and save face. It's exactly your attitude that is at the root of this crisis.

I hear this argument often, but I haven't heard a convincing argument. Why? Lack of storage? No. Lack of computing power or RAM? No. Then?

by qtzfz 3y ago

I hear this argument often, but I haven't heard a convincing argument. Why? Lack of storage? No. Lack of computing power or RAM? No. Then?

bombolo 3y ago

>Lack of storage? No. Why no? Not every machine is your 32GB RAM machine… If it has to run on a slower machine… say a raspberry pi with a slow flash drive and a slow external drive accessed over USB… being much smaller means speed. > Lack of computing power or RAM? No. Why no? Yes. We have had multitasking operating systems for a while now. Electron apps are tolerable because they are few. If every single application was done with electron, it'd be worse than windows95 on a 486. They still sell lots of computers with 8GB of RAM, although I'm sure your one has at least 2x, probably 4x as much. > Then? Then, with incorrect assumptions you can reach any result that you desire, but it is meaningless.

raverbashing 3y ago
> If it has to run on a slower machine… say a raspberry pi with a slow flash drive and a slow external drive accessed over USB This runs a web browser no problem. No need for 32GB of RAM It'd be hard to find some hardware today that runs Qt and not a web browser that's significantly cheaper (and will just make your development costs higher) Electron is an issue but nobody is using that for embedded > Then, with incorrect assumptions you can reach any result that you desire, but it is meaningless. Exactly
- bombolo 3y ago
  > Electron is an issue but nobody is using that for embedded Qt works fine on embedded. Quite popular there. > This runs a web browser no problem. No need for 32GB of RAM Yes, 1 web browser with a minimal no js page. But 10 at the same time? 20? Animated stuff in it?

robinsonb5 3y ago

Embedding an entire web browser is the software equivalent of shipping a tiny part in a 2 foot cube box, or putting three layers of non-recyclable packaging on vegetables. Storage might be cheap, but storage you already have is free. I have a drawer full of old hard drives - all perfectly functional, but not useful because software footprint has exploded in recent years. Embedding a full web browser isn't the only offender, of course - the various types of container systems are another. And that's without mentioning deployment: It's easy to take a fast, high-quality always-on internet connection for granted, but there are many, many people who don't have that, or use mobile plans with strict data limits.

rychco 3y ago

Yes to all the above, actually. Using Electron as an example, applications are often >100MB in size, consume >100MB memory on the low end, & (subjectively) perform badly enough that I can easily feel and perceive the delay between interaction-response. Very very wasteful.

korijn 3y ago

Just because you have access to powerful hardware doesn't mean others have as well. They have perfectly fine and adequate computers, until we started wrapping everything in electron. Now they have to spend their hard-earned money, and contribute to global electronic waste and resource consumption issues, just to be able to participate in society and save face. It's exactly your attitude that is at the root of this crisis.