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> I personally think the first man down the ladder on mars should be a woman Shouldn't it just be the commander of the mission? The way you speak is so condes

> I personally think the first man down the ladder on mars should be a woman Shouldn't it just be the commander of the mission? The way you speak is so condescending to women, as though they wouldn't have the ability to earn their place and it has to be handed to them. I can't speak to your intentions but it's not equality if you thought it was.

93po 3y ago
There is absolutely nothing condescending about that statement
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  It’s unapologetically sexist
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
anon84873628 3y ago
You're making the meritocracy argument and it is disingenuous. You don't have a monopoly on understanding "equality" and it is certainly not as simple in our society as you assume.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > You're making the meritocracy argument and it is disingenuous. You’d need to prove intent for that claim. Merit based seems fair to me.
  - anon84873628 3y ago
    "seems fair to me" is hardly enough basis for a claim either. I did go on to state how it is impossible in our society today - do you actually disagree with that?
- throwntoday 3y ago
  Theres nothing disingenuous about thinking the person that earned the honor should be the one to do it. Your claim that I think I have a monopoly is disingenuous. GP stating it should be a woman, just for being a woman, is being disingenuous. Most women I know appreciate the "perks" of being a woman, but none of them are under any delusion about it. They would be insulted if they lost on equal footing, and were rewarded for it anyway. I've never met anyone who was happy knowing someone let them win. If you want to make an argument that men and women are never on equal footing, I could understand that but I'm not even sure what you are proposing instead.
  - anon84873628 3y ago
    What I'm saying is that "earned the honor" - or rather that there is a single "best person" - is already a flawed assumption. Meritocracy is thoroughly debunked so anyone asserting it is either way out of touch or being disingenuous. The reason is because of historical oppression and entrenched systems of oppression still in place today. In that context, meritocracy only serves to reinforce the status quo. I'm sure NASA can come very close to a true meritocracy - but that doesn't change the fact that there are benefits to having women in visible positions of power, accomplishment, etc. There will be multiple qualified people for any job, and it is 100% acceptable to choose someone because they come from a historically underrepresented group, solely to increase visibility and enfranchisement of that group.
    - throwntoday 3y ago
      > but that doesn't change the fact that there are benefits to having women in visible positions of power, accomplishment, etc So you're making the same proposal. You want to hire a woman because she's a woman. This is a massive disservice to female empowerment. > There will be multiple qualified people for any job, and it is 100% acceptable to choose someone because they come from a historically underrepresented group, solely to increase visibility and enfranchisement of that group. This is an absurd line of thinking. If two people truly are equally qualified, some immutable trait like race, sex, etc. should not be the determining factor. If you are ok with someone being hired for a job because they are a native american or a woman, then you should also be ok with someone choosing to only hire white men and asian men. Both of these scenarios are racist/sexist.

93po 3y ago

There is absolutely nothing condescending about that statement

nonethewiser 3y ago
It’s unapologetically sexist

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

anon84873628 3y ago

You're making the meritocracy argument and it is disingenuous. You don't have a monopoly on understanding "equality" and it is certainly not as simple in our society as you assume.

nonethewiser 3y ago
> You're making the meritocracy argument and it is disingenuous. You’d need to prove intent for that claim. Merit based seems fair to me.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  "seems fair to me" is hardly enough basis for a claim either. I did go on to state how it is impossible in our society today - do you actually disagree with that?
throwntoday 3y ago
Theres nothing disingenuous about thinking the person that earned the honor should be the one to do it. Your claim that I think I have a monopoly is disingenuous. GP stating it should be a woman, just for being a woman, is being disingenuous. Most women I know appreciate the "perks" of being a woman, but none of them are under any delusion about it. They would be insulted if they lost on equal footing, and were rewarded for it anyway. I've never met anyone who was happy knowing someone let them win. If you want to make an argument that men and women are never on equal footing, I could understand that but I'm not even sure what you are proposing instead.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  What I'm saying is that "earned the honor" - or rather that there is a single "best person" - is already a flawed assumption. Meritocracy is thoroughly debunked so anyone asserting it is either way out of touch or being disingenuous. The reason is because of historical oppression and entrenched systems of oppression still in place today. In that context, meritocracy only serves to reinforce the status quo. I'm sure NASA can come very close to a true meritocracy - but that doesn't change the fact that there are benefits to having women in visible positions of power, accomplishment, etc. There will be multiple qualified people for any job, and it is 100% acceptable to choose someone because they come from a historically underrepresented group, solely to increase visibility and enfranchisement of that group.
  - throwntoday 3y ago
    > but that doesn't change the fact that there are benefits to having women in visible positions of power, accomplishment, etc So you're making the same proposal. You want to hire a woman because she's a woman. This is a massive disservice to female empowerment. > There will be multiple qualified people for any job, and it is 100% acceptable to choose someone because they come from a historically underrepresented group, solely to increase visibility and enfranchisement of that group. This is an absurd line of thinking. If two people truly are equally qualified, some immutable trait like race, sex, etc. should not be the determining factor. If you are ok with someone being hired for a job because they are a native american or a woman, then you should also be ok with someone choosing to only hire white men and asian men. Both of these scenarios are racist/sexist.