8 ms·

A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but

A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going to trigger some red flags.

andix 3y ago
This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.
- krab 3y ago
  Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
  - andix 3y ago
    True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
- rascul 3y ago
  > I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
  - andix 3y ago
    I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
    - singlow 3y ago
      Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
    - blackshaw 3y ago
      This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
    - thewebcount 3y ago
      Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage statement, or some other proof you own the place you live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from another country to get those things when they first arrive because all the documents they have are from another country and the entry-level employees that have to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months before they could get a regular credit card. It's very confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the easy path.
      - 3y ago
- Faaak 3y ago
  Spain does that
- jordij1 3y ago
  Spain also has the address in the DNI (national document of identity), and as the Germans Spain's citizens are also required to have such a document. Many public and private services will ask for your DNI if they need to validate your identity.
- blackshaw 3y ago
  > the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. Is it? From a quick search it looks like a very large number of countries have compulsory ID cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#/media/File:National_ID_card_policy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card...
- sine_break 3y ago
  US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for citizens.
  - vineyardmike 3y ago
    Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your driver’s license (or if you don’t drive there’s a non-driver version that’s just a card). There is no mandate to get one or carry it (except for driving). We have issues with voter registration because it’s been politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes time, and most people get it to drive which is expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It’s disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it’s a problem falls down party lines and your favorite statistician’s analysis. But that’s why it’s “an issue”.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      We have government issues ID cards, but we don’t have free government issued ID cards as far as I know, which is one of the problem with these voter ID laws.
      - HideousKojima 3y ago
        It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for people under the poverty line.
        bee_rider 3y ago
        It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.
- biomcgary 3y ago
  Is the ID requirement a leftover from the Nazi era? I don't suppose Germany ever issued a blanket repeal of all the laws passed during that error.
  - usr1106 3y ago
    The law has been changed numerous times since then. However, the requirement to possess an ID was introduced with the start of WW II. So it's not completely wrong to call it a Nazi invention.
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  We have address printed on ID cards here in Italy, just as an extra data point in addition to the other people who have replied already.
- stefandesu 3y ago
  Apparently, it isn't obligatory to have an ID card here im Germany. My friend researched this last time his ID was about to expire and decided to go with passport only. The only problem is when you have to verify your address, since that's usually done via ID.
  - andix 3y ago
    True. But it’s still obligatory to have an ID. In a lot of countries this is not the case.
red_trumpet 3y ago
To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.
- nixass 3y ago
  This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - detaro 3y ago
    If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)
mjochim 3y ago
German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
onefkgff 3y ago
There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
fs111 3y ago
> Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.

andix 3y ago

This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.

krab 3y ago
Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
- andix 3y ago
  True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
rascul 3y ago
> I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
- andix 3y ago
  I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
  - singlow 3y ago
    Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
  - blackshaw 3y ago
    This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
  - thewebcount 3y ago
    Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage statement, or some other proof you own the place you live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from another country to get those things when they first arrive because all the documents they have are from another country and the entry-level employees that have to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months before they could get a regular credit card. It's very confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the easy path.
    - 3y ago
Faaak 3y ago
Spain does that
jordij1 3y ago
Spain also has the address in the DNI (national document of identity), and as the Germans Spain's citizens are also required to have such a document. Many public and private services will ask for your DNI if they need to validate your identity.
blackshaw 3y ago
> the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. Is it? From a quick search it looks like a very large number of countries have compulsory ID cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#/media/File:National_ID_card_policy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card...
sine_break 3y ago
US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for citizens.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your driver’s license (or if you don’t drive there’s a non-driver version that’s just a card). There is no mandate to get one or carry it (except for driving). We have issues with voter registration because it’s been politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes time, and most people get it to drive which is expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It’s disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it’s a problem falls down party lines and your favorite statistician’s analysis. But that’s why it’s “an issue”.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    We have government issues ID cards, but we don’t have free government issued ID cards as far as I know, which is one of the problem with these voter ID laws.
    - HideousKojima 3y ago
      It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for people under the poverty line.
      - bee_rider 3y ago
        It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.
biomcgary 3y ago
Is the ID requirement a leftover from the Nazi era? I don't suppose Germany ever issued a blanket repeal of all the laws passed during that error.
- usr1106 3y ago
  The law has been changed numerous times since then. However, the requirement to possess an ID was introduced with the start of WW II. So it's not completely wrong to call it a Nazi invention.
manuelmoreale 3y ago
We have address printed on ID cards here in Italy, just as an extra data point in addition to the other people who have replied already.
stefandesu 3y ago
Apparently, it isn't obligatory to have an ID card here im Germany. My friend researched this last time his ID was about to expire and decided to go with passport only. The only problem is when you have to verify your address, since that's usually done via ID.
- andix 3y ago
  True. But it’s still obligatory to have an ID. In a lot of countries this is not the case.

red_trumpet 3y ago

To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.

nixass 3y ago
This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- detaro 3y ago
  If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)

mjochim 3y ago

German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.

onefkgff 3y ago

There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.

fs111 3y ago

> Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.