13 ms·

And the current one is all the fear about transgender people. America seems to always need to be afraid of some group of people

by d6e 3y ago

kevviiinn 3y ago
It's just reactionary politics
- themitigating 3y ago
  It's not "just" politics. Laws effect people.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    You're right, perhaps I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that it's par for the course for the reactionary US political party. Definitely a bad thing
    - themitigating 3y ago
      " the reactionary US political party" Republicans. I don't like the new subtle false equivalence. They are traitors.
      - kevviiinn 3y ago
        From my perspective the Republicans are the reactionary party and the Democrats are the conservative party. It's just how far the Overton window has shifted. However I do agree that their actions do a lot to harm citizens and the country, more so than D or at least more blatantly and overtly. It's wild how they claim to be the about freedom then do everything they can to restrict it, especially with speech
        themitigating 3y ago
        What makes democrats the conservative party? Remember that's a comparison between the two, not an objective assement.
        kevviiinn 3y ago
        They're, at large, interested in conserving the structures of capitalism. They make an effort to seem progressive but continuously fail to make any meaningful changes to the systems in the US that have harmed people and have kept people in poverty for generations. They're generally in the pockets of capitalists and don't care about worker rights. There may be a couple exceptions but the democratic party in general is conservative
        muyuu 3y ago
        as a foreigner with some interest in US history it does seem like Republicans are going back to their early philosophy of Republicanism, which is basically the moral and political framework of the USA circa the time of abolition, where as Democrats have adopted a postmodern European worldview these two worldviews differ very significantly and are in a very deep conflict, and by definition the euro-postmodern view is a lot more comfortable in bureaucracy and the currently much bigger (Federal-) State, is much better at it, and effectively controls it at all levels this renders Republicans into a reactionary party, especially as the growing trend within it abandons neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism Democrats look a lot like the old Whig party which existed both sides of the Atlantic but was out of step with the prevailing culture; they also look a lot more like a modern British mainstream party than any major US party has looked before, which IMO it's not a good thing, but European politicians love it
the_doctah 3y ago
I think it's more about the children having radical surgery backed by zero scientific research. Couldn't care less what adults want do to themselves.
- klyrs 3y ago
  People believing that masses of children are literally getting surgery, circumcision notwithstanding, is a result of a persistent campaign to cause panic. And it's the same hucksters selling fear to the same religious reactionaries. New day, new apocalyptic scapegoat.
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - Timon3 3y ago
      You just made a wild jump. Do you think hormones are a type of surgery?
      - MrPatan 3y ago
        They are a type of procedure with irreversible life-altering consequences that somehow you think children can consent to.
        heavyset_go 3y ago
        If they can't consent to this, then they can't consent to almost any surgery. They even couldn't consent to getting braces.
        MrPatan 3y ago
        You're damn right children can't consent to anything! That is exactly the point! Which is why the parents are the ones in charge, and why it's alarming that for irreversible sterilizing and life-altering procedures they're trying to remove the parents. It's insane, as you very well put it. They can't get a tattoo, too permanent, but they can get their tits chopped off. Makes total sense, yeah.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
[flagged]
- pigsty 3y ago
  Transgender people have existed throughout history and on every corner of the earth. They’re documented in basically any society with written records. But for some reason, in 2023, people (mainly Americans) think it’s something new and they demand to be angry about it.
  - MrPatan 3y ago
    There was no problem anywhere in the world until they came for the children.
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    Just last week, when I was at a techno music gathering, a couple of my friends saw a guy in drag (it was more like over the top ball dress really) and were like "whoaa, did you see that". I had to remind them that we used to have scores of trannies attending these events in the past and and no one cared. But now, after the latest round of propaganda, we, as a society, fear them again.
    - Freak_NL 3y ago
      Good point, but you may want to avoid the word 'tranny' when you mean transvestite (or preferably, cross-dresser or drag queen) or transsexual or transgender person. 'Tranny' has been embraced as a hateful slur and is generally considered offensive and derogatory. (Cf.: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tranny https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tranny)
      - beebeepka 3y ago
        Maybe this is why I am being downvoted. What should I use instead? I don't exactly follow the waves of nuspeak
timmytokyo 3y ago
And as you can see, even Hacker News is not immune to this latest moral panic. Sadly, once a moral panic starts, it's nearly impossible to stop. It has to destroy an egregious number of innocent lives before society finally comes to its senses, at which point the panic slowly fizzles out.
- aiiie 3y ago
  I'm a bit surprised at how often it seems to come up in random comment threads. The atmosphere here feels increasingly unwelcoming lately. Or maybe people feel like they're just having abstract, hypothetical intellectual discussions. But when I read these threads, it just feels like signal after signal that I no longer fit in or have a place here.
  - lurkerforawhile 3y ago
    I too have noticed some quite transphobic attitudes on HN over the past year or so. It's been a bit shocking at times. I have considered emailing the admins to state my concerns, or creating an account here to add another voice to threads when things start heading in that direction - but ultimately it seems futile as transphobia seems to have ramped up everywhere recently. It's scary. Of all the wonderful trans people I know in the real world, very few are getting the medical assistance they need. Those people are fortunate enough to pay for private care, and even then the level of care they are getting is barely acceptable. My other trans friends are approaching their 30s and still on waiting lists. Many things presented as fact in this thread do not line up with my experiences of trans issues and the wider LGBTQ community. In my opinion many users on HN are truly insightful about tech and programming, but utterly heartless when it comes to social issues.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      It's worth noting that most of the people expressing those attitudes here are quite new accounts and/or end up severely downvoted, and often flagged to oblivion. In this discussion in particular I haven't noticed any "regulars" stepping off the deep end. It tends to be less futile to try to keep these things at bay here than most other places, as HN regulars have a low tolerance for heated/controversial political debates at the best of times, even before adding in concern over the specific views expressed, so the threshold for someone to end up flagged over it is pretty low. If you have concerns that are not resolved by people getting flagged (may take a while for them to reach critical mass of flags) or banned, do e-mail the admins. I'm sure they'll at least listen.
transcoderx 3y ago
[flagged]
- watwut 3y ago
  This is a lie. The moral panic is about pronouns, puberty blockers, about mental health counselling. The moral panic is trying to make books about transgender and gay banned. It is about closing libraries when they refuse to comply.
  - transcoderx 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - zrail 3y ago
      Puberty blockers are not safe. That's true. Their relative risk is judged against suicide, an all too common outcome among untreated trans kids (and adults).
      - transcoderx 3y ago
        There are also suicides among treated "trans kids". Don' just use the selective statistics the trans lobby throws around. Or look into the details when they cite actual studies.
      - mpweiher 3y ago
        To judge that, we would have to have some idea whether they actually reduce the risk of suicide. "...a negative association found many years after treatment is compatible with three scenarios: puberty blockers reduced suicidal ideation; puberty blockers had no effect on suicidal ideation; puberty blockers increased suicidal ideation, albeit not enough to counteract the initial negative effect of psychological problems on eligibility. Turban et al. (2020, p. 7) acknowledged that “the study’s cross-sectional design…does not allow for determination of causation.”" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01743-6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01743-6
Yoric 3y ago
I recently read the Fate Horror Toolkit. It's a tabletop role-playing book dedicated to writing/improvising horror stories. They try to trace typical horror plots/clichés to the underlying social fears, typically of US society. Very interesting read for people who are into storytelling. And yes, there are a few paragraphs about transgender fear in horror.

And the current one is all the fear about transgender people. America seems to always need to be afraid of some group of people

by d6e 3y ago

And the current one is all the fear about transgender people. America seems to always need to be afraid of some group of people

kevviiinn 3y ago

It's just reactionary politics

themitigating 3y ago
It's not "just" politics. Laws effect people.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  You're right, perhaps I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that it's par for the course for the reactionary US political party. Definitely a bad thing
  - themitigating 3y ago
    " the reactionary US political party" Republicans. I don't like the new subtle false equivalence. They are traitors.
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      From my perspective the Republicans are the reactionary party and the Democrats are the conservative party. It's just how far the Overton window has shifted. However I do agree that their actions do a lot to harm citizens and the country, more so than D or at least more blatantly and overtly. It's wild how they claim to be the about freedom then do everything they can to restrict it, especially with speech
      - themitigating 3y ago
        What makes democrats the conservative party? Remember that's a comparison between the two, not an objective assement.
        kevviiinn 3y ago
        They're, at large, interested in conserving the structures of capitalism. They make an effort to seem progressive but continuously fail to make any meaningful changes to the systems in the US that have harmed people and have kept people in poverty for generations. They're generally in the pockets of capitalists and don't care about worker rights. There may be a couple exceptions but the democratic party in general is conservative
      - muyuu 3y ago
        as a foreigner with some interest in US history it does seem like Republicans are going back to their early philosophy of Republicanism, which is basically the moral and political framework of the USA circa the time of abolition, where as Democrats have adopted a postmodern European worldview these two worldviews differ very significantly and are in a very deep conflict, and by definition the euro-postmodern view is a lot more comfortable in bureaucracy and the currently much bigger (Federal-) State, is much better at it, and effectively controls it at all levels this renders Republicans into a reactionary party, especially as the growing trend within it abandons neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism Democrats look a lot like the old Whig party which existed both sides of the Atlantic but was out of step with the prevailing culture; they also look a lot more like a modern British mainstream party than any major US party has looked before, which IMO it's not a good thing, but European politicians love it

the_doctah 3y ago

I think it's more about the children having radical surgery backed by zero scientific research. Couldn't care less what adults want do to themselves.

klyrs 3y ago
People believing that masses of children are literally getting surgery, circumcision notwithstanding, is a result of a persistent campaign to cause panic. And it's the same hucksters selling fear to the same religious reactionaries. New day, new apocalyptic scapegoat.
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Timon3 3y ago
    You just made a wild jump. Do you think hormones are a type of surgery?
    - MrPatan 3y ago
      They are a type of procedure with irreversible life-altering consequences that somehow you think children can consent to.
      - heavyset_go 3y ago
        If they can't consent to this, then they can't consent to almost any surgery. They even couldn't consent to getting braces.
        MrPatan 3y ago
        You're damn right children can't consent to anything! That is exactly the point! Which is why the parents are the ones in charge, and why it's alarming that for irreversible sterilizing and life-altering procedures they're trying to remove the parents. It's insane, as you very well put it. They can't get a tattoo, too permanent, but they can get their tits chopped off. Makes total sense, yeah.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

[flagged]

pigsty 3y ago
Transgender people have existed throughout history and on every corner of the earth. They’re documented in basically any society with written records. But for some reason, in 2023, people (mainly Americans) think it’s something new and they demand to be angry about it.
- MrPatan 3y ago
  There was no problem anywhere in the world until they came for the children.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Just last week, when I was at a techno music gathering, a couple of my friends saw a guy in drag (it was more like over the top ball dress really) and were like "whoaa, did you see that". I had to remind them that we used to have scores of trannies attending these events in the past and and no one cared. But now, after the latest round of propaganda, we, as a society, fear them again.
  - Freak_NL 3y ago
    Good point, but you may want to avoid the word 'tranny' when you mean transvestite (or preferably, cross-dresser or drag queen) or transsexual or transgender person. 'Tranny' has been embraced as a hateful slur and is generally considered offensive and derogatory. (Cf.: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tranny https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tranny)
    - beebeepka 3y ago
      Maybe this is why I am being downvoted. What should I use instead? I don't exactly follow the waves of nuspeak

timmytokyo 3y ago

And as you can see, even Hacker News is not immune to this latest moral panic. Sadly, once a moral panic starts, it's nearly impossible to stop. It has to destroy an egregious number of innocent lives before society finally comes to its senses, at which point the panic slowly fizzles out.

aiiie 3y ago
I'm a bit surprised at how often it seems to come up in random comment threads. The atmosphere here feels increasingly unwelcoming lately. Or maybe people feel like they're just having abstract, hypothetical intellectual discussions. But when I read these threads, it just feels like signal after signal that I no longer fit in or have a place here.
- lurkerforawhile 3y ago
  I too have noticed some quite transphobic attitudes on HN over the past year or so. It's been a bit shocking at times. I have considered emailing the admins to state my concerns, or creating an account here to add another voice to threads when things start heading in that direction - but ultimately it seems futile as transphobia seems to have ramped up everywhere recently. It's scary. Of all the wonderful trans people I know in the real world, very few are getting the medical assistance they need. Those people are fortunate enough to pay for private care, and even then the level of care they are getting is barely acceptable. My other trans friends are approaching their 30s and still on waiting lists. Many things presented as fact in this thread do not line up with my experiences of trans issues and the wider LGBTQ community. In my opinion many users on HN are truly insightful about tech and programming, but utterly heartless when it comes to social issues.
  - vidarh 3y ago
    It's worth noting that most of the people expressing those attitudes here are quite new accounts and/or end up severely downvoted, and often flagged to oblivion. In this discussion in particular I haven't noticed any "regulars" stepping off the deep end. It tends to be less futile to try to keep these things at bay here than most other places, as HN regulars have a low tolerance for heated/controversial political debates at the best of times, even before adding in concern over the specific views expressed, so the threshold for someone to end up flagged over it is pretty low. If you have concerns that are not resolved by people getting flagged (may take a while for them to reach critical mass of flags) or banned, do e-mail the admins. I'm sure they'll at least listen.

transcoderx 3y ago

[flagged]

watwut 3y ago
This is a lie. The moral panic is about pronouns, puberty blockers, about mental health counselling. The moral panic is trying to make books about transgender and gay banned. It is about closing libraries when they refuse to comply.
- transcoderx 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - zrail 3y ago
    Puberty blockers are not safe. That's true. Their relative risk is judged against suicide, an all too common outcome among untreated trans kids (and adults).
    - transcoderx 3y ago
      There are also suicides among treated "trans kids". Don' just use the selective statistics the trans lobby throws around. Or look into the details when they cite actual studies.
    - mpweiher 3y ago
      To judge that, we would have to have some idea whether they actually reduce the risk of suicide. "...a negative association found many years after treatment is compatible with three scenarios: puberty blockers reduced suicidal ideation; puberty blockers had no effect on suicidal ideation; puberty blockers increased suicidal ideation, albeit not enough to counteract the initial negative effect of psychological problems on eligibility. Turban et al. (2020, p. 7) acknowledged that “the study’s cross-sectional design…does not allow for determination of causation.”" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01743-6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01743-6

Yoric 3y ago

I recently read the Fate Horror Toolkit. It's a tabletop role-playing book dedicated to writing/improvising horror stories. They try to trace typical horror plots/clichés to the underlying social fears, typically of US society. Very interesting read for people who are into storytelling. And yes, there are a few paragraphs about transgender fear in horror.