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No that’s not fraud. Fraud requires a lie and justifiable, detrimental reliance on that lie by a victim.
by falseeq 3y ago
No that’s not fraud. Fraud requires a lie and justifiable, detrimental reliance on that lie by a victim.
- singleshot_ 3y agoHi, welcome to hacker news. Why wouldn’t a buyer be justified in relying upon a sellers description of the goods for sale?
- falseeq 3y agoBecause the more detailed description of the feature clearly explains what it does and doesn’t do. Say you sign a contract, one section is titled “Seller Assumes Liability for Injury” but then the text of that section lists some circumstances where they don’t. Totally fine and legal.
- singleshot_ 3y agoMaybe, if all that is within the four corners of the contract. I don’t think that’s what we are talking about here; our current discussion seems to involve the marketing name of a car feature (full self driving) and the technical functionality that name represents. With that in mind it seems that you are not thinking about the Rst. 2d Torts 540 duty to investigate rule. I can be justified in relying on something (e.g., your intentionally misleading name for the feature) even if an investigation would have shown the misrepresentation was false. Instead of “totally fine and legal” I would say that this is “a fact-dependent situation.” Do you believe that selling something called Full Self Driving that actually could not drive itself fully is within the duty of good faith and fair dealing? This sidesteps the issue of the tort of fraudulent misrepresentation and goes right to the heart of the customer confusion a product like a Tesla sows.
- falseeq 3y agoYes, good faith and fair dealing has nothing to do with this and shows that while you may know enough to pull out the restatement, you don’t really get the law. Good faith has to do with conduct in the execution of an agreement that undermines the deal without seeming to technically violate it. It doesn’t have anything to do with putting caveats in fine print.
- singleshot_ 3y agoFalse, of course; a bait and switch contract is a violation of the implied duty of good faith and fair dealing. The conduct of delivering something that is not what you advertised fulfills the elements. If you want to sit here and tell me that the contract actually says the car can't drive itself, that's fine but my hypothetical had nothing to do with a caveat in fine print. I suggest before you make a personal attack, you do your best to read the regular-sized print that I delivered to you. The website which you are using this twenty-hour old account to troll has some rules, too, and you would do better to study those rather than to try to contradict me.
- falseeq 3y agoIt’s very clear when you buy a Tesla that the car does not completely drive itself without human supervision. It’s part of the agreement, and the use of FSD as the marketing name of the feature doesn’t change that. >The conduct of delivering something that is not what you advertised fulfills the elements. The issue is what was promised. The promise is not just the title of the feature, but all of the information presented to you when you buy a Tesla. And I’ll contradict you all day if I want because you’re not just wrong, but clearly suffering from Elon Derangement Syndrome. You’re clearly not a lawyer even if you role play one online.
- singleshot_ 3y agoAmazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong, etc. Your negative one karma over the last 24 hours tells us everything we need to know about you, leaving my licensure status aside.
- falseeq 3y ago[dead]
- singleshot_ 3y agoAnd for what it’s worth, even were I not a lawyer, I would know that the use of the word “clearly” is a dead giveaway for a loser argument.
- LadyCailin 3y agoIt’s closer to Seller Assumes Liability for Injury† †Seller Assumes No Liability for Injury
- anigbrowl 3y agoI'm really tired of people just treating words as meaningless attention hooks and then leaning on a unilaterally convenient redefinition of them.