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That's your opinion as a probably left leaning person. Other people may think differently. That such laws were passed 50 years ago does not prove that they were

That's your opinion as a probably left leaning person. Other people may think differently. That such laws were passed 50 years ago does not prove that they were a net positive.

shadowgovt 3y ago
Totally agree. They're the law right now, and if you're looking to change that, there is a process to do so. I haven't heard any explanation of how removing them would improve America other than "it would take us back to how things were before, which was better," which is a non-starter. ...And you will be fought every step of the way, as the people who got the laws first passed were fought every step of the way. Of course, I hope you fail, as I've never heard an explanation of how repealing those laws would improve things.
- misslibby 3y ago
  The explanation is simple: freedom. People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. They make sure that they can never escape from the hamster wheel. Of course most people are happy as long as other people are not better off than they themselves, so being stuck in the hamster wheel doesn't bother them that much. More freedom also means more potential businesses who have to compete for workers, which is good for the workers. If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers. The argument that things would become what they "were before" doesn't make that much sense. In a poor economy, things are poorly, no matter what socialist laws try to prevent it (worker protection only helps you if you have a job, for example). There is no reason that by abandoning some law from the 50 years ago, the economy would fall back to the state of the 80ies. Also maybe the 80ies weren't actually so bad. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary. I'm sure you can get better explanations and economic theories. You have never heard an explanation because you have never looked for it or listened to one, not because none exist.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    > People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. Freedom to what, in this context? > If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers. This is the "capitalism will solve it" argument which proved so untrue we passed the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Employment Act. It turns out that, no, even when it's economically obvious that catering to a minority population would be valuable, you can have 100% of a town refusing to do so because racism is more important to them than money. That creates entire regions of the country that are no-go zones if your skin color is wrong, and we decided that's not acceptable. > There is no reason that by abandoning some law from the 50 years ago, the economy would fall back to the state of the 80ies. I'm not concerned about what the economy would do; I'm concerned about whether it would be harder to keep a job free of daily torment if you're the wrong skin color than it is now. My mistake; the law in question isn't 50 years old, it's a 1970s law. > I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary. If you can find some evidence that the passage of the ERA modified that, feel free to present it. But I'm pretty sure to explain why that changed, you're looking for Reagan-era deregulation (and the economic shift from a manufacturing economy, where unions were strong, to a service economy, where few unions existed). > You have never heard an explanation because you have never looked for it or listened to one, not because none exist. Interesting and unsupported hypothesis. But I don't expect you to bring me anything new because you've already declared you're "too lazy to look it up," so I think this conversation thread has ended.
    - misslibby 3y ago
      > Freedom to what, in this context? The freedom to work in the way they want. To escape the hamster wheel, for example by starting their own company with the conditions they prefer. > This is the "capitalism will solve it" argument which proved so untrue we passed the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Employment Act. It didn't prove untrue. The early days of capitalism where marked by a previous population explosion and abandonment of the feudal system, with lots of people pouring into cities looking for work. That is why there was a lot of poverty. > That creates entire regions of the country that are no-go zones if your skin color is wrong, and we decided that's not acceptable. Pretty sure there are lots of No-Go zones for people with the wrong skin color today. At least if your skin color is white. > I'm concerned about whether it would be harder to keep a job free of daily torment if you're the wrong skin color than it is now. So you think there wouldn't be any businesses run by black owners? Why not? > But I'm pretty sure to explain why that changed, you're looking for Reagan-era deregulation So the economy was better in the past, but your argument was that it was worse? > Interesting and unsupported hypothesis. Well everybody who HAS heard explanations knows they exist, so the reason you have not heard of them must be that you wilfully denied their exoistence.

That's your opinion as a probably left leaning person. Other people may think differently. That such laws were passed 50 years ago does not prove that they were a net positive.

shadowgovt 3y ago

Totally agree. They're the law right now, and if you're looking to change that, there is a process to do so. I haven't heard any explanation of how removing them would improve America other than "it would take us back to how things were before, which was better," which is a non-starter. ...And you will be fought every step of the way, as the people who got the laws first passed were fought every step of the way. Of course, I hope you fail, as I've never heard an explanation of how repealing those laws would improve things.

misslibby 3y ago
The explanation is simple: freedom. People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. They make sure that they can never escape from the hamster wheel. Of course most people are happy as long as other people are not better off than they themselves, so being stuck in the hamster wheel doesn't bother them that much. More freedom also means more potential businesses who have to compete for workers, which is good for the workers. If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers. The argument that things would become what they "were before" doesn't make that much sense. In a poor economy, things are poorly, no matter what socialist laws try to prevent it (worker protection only helps you if you have a job, for example). There is no reason that by abandoning some law from the 50 years ago, the economy would fall back to the state of the 80ies. Also maybe the 80ies weren't actually so bad. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary. I'm sure you can get better explanations and economic theories. You have never heard an explanation because you have never looked for it or listened to one, not because none exist.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  > People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. Freedom to what, in this context? > If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers. This is the "capitalism will solve it" argument which proved so untrue we passed the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Employment Act. It turns out that, no, even when it's economically obvious that catering to a minority population would be valuable, you can have 100% of a town refusing to do so because racism is more important to them than money. That creates entire regions of the country that are no-go zones if your skin color is wrong, and we decided that's not acceptable. > There is no reason that by abandoning some law from the 50 years ago, the economy would fall back to the state of the 80ies. I'm not concerned about what the economy would do; I'm concerned about whether it would be harder to keep a job free of daily torment if you're the wrong skin color than it is now. My mistake; the law in question isn't 50 years old, it's a 1970s law. > I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary. If you can find some evidence that the passage of the ERA modified that, feel free to present it. But I'm pretty sure to explain why that changed, you're looking for Reagan-era deregulation (and the economic shift from a manufacturing economy, where unions were strong, to a service economy, where few unions existed). > You have never heard an explanation because you have never looked for it or listened to one, not because none exist. Interesting and unsupported hypothesis. But I don't expect you to bring me anything new because you've already declared you're "too lazy to look it up," so I think this conversation thread has ended.
  - misslibby 3y ago
    > Freedom to what, in this context? The freedom to work in the way they want. To escape the hamster wheel, for example by starting their own company with the conditions they prefer. > This is the "capitalism will solve it" argument which proved so untrue we passed the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Employment Act. It didn't prove untrue. The early days of capitalism where marked by a previous population explosion and abandonment of the feudal system, with lots of people pouring into cities looking for work. That is why there was a lot of poverty. > That creates entire regions of the country that are no-go zones if your skin color is wrong, and we decided that's not acceptable. Pretty sure there are lots of No-Go zones for people with the wrong skin color today. At least if your skin color is white. > I'm concerned about whether it would be harder to keep a job free of daily torment if you're the wrong skin color than it is now. So you think there wouldn't be any businesses run by black owners? Why not? > But I'm pretty sure to explain why that changed, you're looking for Reagan-era deregulation So the economy was better in the past, but your argument was that it was worse? > Interesting and unsupported hypothesis. Well everybody who HAS heard explanations knows they exist, so the reason you have not heard of them must be that you wilfully denied their exoistence.