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Ask HN: How to get an accessibility tester job as a blind programmer?

I want to test accessibility for apps and websites as a job. I regularly use pretty much all screen readers except Orca, I use VoiceOver for anything Apple makes, JAWS or NVDA anything Windows, and Talkback in Android. I haven’t had a formal education on accessibility, but I use these screen readers to navigate websites and apps daily, so my skills is pretty good. I also like coding in Java, I love that language, I consider Java the best language since C. I only code in Java, because I can’t C (a little joke). So, if you have an app that you want their accessibility tested, let me know I will do that for you: I currently only own iPhone, though. So, HN, who wants their accessibility tested for their website or apps for blind people or low-vision people?

oulipo 4y ago
Can you tell me more about your setup for navigation and coding on Windows, I'm interested because I need to help someone who lost his sight learn keyboard typing and coding
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I currently don't own a Windows machine, but when I had a Windows computer, I would use InteliJ IDE for my Java programming, I also use Android Studio for making Android apps. JAWS, one of the paid screen readers works both programs really well. Visual Studio (ironically named!), is surprisingly accessible both in Windows and Mac. One other screen reader, although I don't use it much is called NVDA (Non-Visual Desktop Access) which is free. Other programs that are really accessible is Sublime Text, at least for me. I will make a video describing all the programs I use daily to write code as a blind programmer in YouTube channel.
wilsonjohn 4y ago
You can also connect with https://visionaid.org https://visionaid.org. They are a non profit who offer accessibility testing. Maybe you'll be able to join their team. We recently tested our product with them.
leipert 4y ago
As far as I know, there are special agencies that help companies or government agencies with their accessibility goals. I assume they have a more diverse set of employees and would be open to hire you. When I looked into hiring someone for a company directly, I was told that because of HIPAA laws you cannot advertise „we want to hire blind programmer“.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  That makes sense, because that would be discrimination. But I wonder how Hooters can get away with only hiring "models" whatever that means? But I think the term "attractive" is a lot more liquid than being "blind" which is rigid and legally defined. Thank you for your comment, really helpful.
ihateolives 4y ago
Contact Jakob at https://sparrowaccess.com/ https://sparrowaccess.com/ He's doing exactly that. Helpful guy, maybe he has some tips for you.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I will do that, thank you for the suggestion.
modestmc 4y ago
Your joke was good, alas my sense of humor is a little rusty. Hopefully my delivery there sounded good on your end, I have no helpful advice but best of luck!
- just-tom 4y ago
  Whoever downvoted you clearly didn't read the whole post and thought you we're referring to the post as the joke, not the actual joke inside it.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  haha
bcx 4y ago
We (Olark YC S09) are in the process of building out a fully accessible platform for realtime communication (live chat, bots/automations) for both agents and visitors, and regularly work with folks to help our team test and improve our work -- it's still early days Progress Not Perfection :). I am definitely interesting in talking, you can apply as a tester here: https://www.olark.com/ada-accessible-live-chat https://www.olark.com/ada-accessible-live-chat And you can ping me personally on Linkedin if you want to chat more. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/bencongleton https://www.linkedin.com/in/bencongleton) We work with both individuals often as contractors, and agencies as well. You might want to talk to the folks at lighthouse SF, they do consulting for a lot of tech companies, and have a matching program, I am actually going to be at their offices Thursday, so I can follow up with best way to get in touch, but I'd assume the emails on the below link will get you what you need. https://lighthouse-sf.org/programs/access-technology/ https://lighthouse-sf.org/programs/access-technology/ And we've also worked with Fable who manages engagements like what you are looking for: https://makeitfable.com/community/ https://makeitfable.com/community/
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Thank you very much for your offer, I will apply the tester job. Lighthouse SF, that's pretty interesting, I may contact them for opportunities. My Email is in my profile, so if you see any opportunities, let me know. I really appreciate for taking the time to write this and giving me the chance for this opportunity. Thanks.
forgotmypw17 4y ago
I develop a FOSS project that prioritizes accessibility, and I haven't had any screenreader testing in a hot minute. I would appreciate even a little bit of testing. How can one contact you?
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  My contact email is in my profile, please contact me.
SimonPStevens 4y ago
Have you tried working freelance? I've had several big projects in the past where we've had accessibility requirements to meet and it always involves training testers and developers in the tools. I'd have happily paid a someone to consult on best approaches, run the tests, maybe train a few people to keep it going.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Couple of people in here already have suggested I start an agency that consult accessibility, so I will start that soon. I have to get couple of classes on accessibility to check off some formal education checkmark, because a lot of people won't take me seriously if my professional opinion isn't backed up with some sort of formal education. Even though, I use screen readers daily to write code, to read articles, even to do some light editing with iMovie since I have few remaining eyesight.
  - SimonPStevens 4y ago
    The formal certificates will help in some situations, but don't assume you need them for everything right from the start. Speaking for myself, I would have happily hired a consultant with the experience of being blind themselves over anyone with a certificate. Another thought is that for one of the projects I had the accessibility requirement came from the UK government. It was a project being used in a public service department and it was a requirement for them that every bit of software they purchased was accessible. If you're in the UK you may find the public sector is a good place the look.
matsemann 4y ago
When I've done frontend work for government agencies, we have contacted the national association for blind people in my country, and gotten help from them (Norges Blindeforbund / The Norwegian Association of the Blind and Partially Sighted). Could you perhaps reach out to a similar organization where you live and tell them of your services, so that when others reach out to that organization for help they can refer them to you?
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  That is really a good idea! I live in USA, each state have their own state IT department that handles all IT stuff. So, if I email people who work there, they could refer some work to me.
BaudouinVH 4y ago
I am currently working alongside blind/vision impaired persons that are auditing/coding web sites for accessibility. Do you live in Belgium by any chance ?
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  No, I don't live in Belgium. But keep the good work!
tomashubelbauer 4y ago
I worked alongside a blind programmer in one of my past teams and AFAIK the company hired him as a consultant and found him through his work in my country's organization for blind people. I'd highly recommend joining such a group in your area as it seems likely they will be able to get you in touch with companies. If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they'd have been approached by companies before. (They had been? They'll have been? I am not sure what tense to use. ESL)
- mkl 4y ago
  "they'll have been", since you're using present tense ("is"). If you'd said "was" instead (not correct for this statement, just an example), "they'd have been" would be right.
  - richrichardsson 4y ago
    This a tricky one. > If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they'd have been approached by companies before The approaching took place in the past, so I'm not sure I follow why using "is" makes anything present tense other than the conditional clause? The group must be "at least somewhat big" in the present for the conditional clause to be true, and the main clause is somewhat separate. The expansion of "they'll have been" is "they will have been", which sounds perfectly fine. In my mind the expansion of the original sentence would be, "If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they would have had been approached by companies before". In spoken communication you would likely drop that "had", but it's also perfectly normal to contract it as OP did. But in written form I think it's too much of a stretch to replace "would have ha" with an apostrophe.
- jgwil2 4y ago
  Re grammar, "they'll have been" works but I would just keep it simple: "chances are they have been."
nicewarmvalley 4y ago
One blind accessibility tester i had the pleasure working with got his position at a national government agency by sending a complaint about the poor accessibility for blind people on their websites. The response was an invitation to a job interview!
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Interesting, I always thought those complaints usually go to unanswered email inbox, but if people actually answer these, I may try writing to these governmental agencies sites and apps.
  - nicewarmvalley 4y ago
    He probably had great timing/luck with his complaint, but I guess an open application with an agenda disguised as a complaint can be effective if it reaches the right people at the right time. Good luck!
gnicholas 4y ago
Check out Fable: https://makeitfable.com/ https://makeitfable.com/
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I actually applied this week, and I am waiting for a response. Thanks.
pushfoo 4y ago
You may want to reach out to Dr. Sile O’Modhrain (https://smtd.umich.edu/faculty-profiles/sile-omodhrain/ https://smtd.umich.edu/faculty-profiles/sile-omodhrain/). She is a highly experienced blind researcher & a co-founder of NewHaptics, a tactile display startup (https://www.newhaptics.com/ https://www.newhaptics.com/). Even if you want to focus on accessibility testing rather than hardware, Dr. O'Modhrain may be able to connect you with useful guidance. I would also mention your programming experience in case NewHaptics is looking for someone to help with testing hardware, firmware, or drivers.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  That's really interesting, a blind researcher doing hardware? that's really impressive. I actually was doing a hobby project where I wanted to create a height adjustable desk with Raspberry Pi, but I didn't finish because I couldn't find vertical actuators: I will most definitely contact to the Dr. Thank you!
2rsf 4y ago
Maybe one of the crowd testing platforms? what you offer, accessibility testing for vision impaired people, is important and (should be) done in every company for every product an iteration but in reality it is quite rare. A company don't test accessibility for every small change and release, so you'll need to either find a team with a lot of products or offer your services to different clients.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yeah, you are right accessibility is one of those edge areas that most companies don't make it a priority. But in the U.S there's a federal law that requires if you have a website or an app that is meant for public use, that website or app must be accessible to blind people, Dominos was sued recently for making their website not accessible to blind folk. It is like of those issues where companies don't act until the government forces their hand.
andrewstuart 4y ago
Write about your work. Post it everywhere. LinkedIn, Reddit, your blog. Start every post saying your looking for work.
- hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
  This ties right into what my advice was going to be: start a consulting practice to help organizations make their software accessible by performing audits and providing recommendations. Come up with a menu of services w/pricing and post them on your site. An option that's a few hundred bucks or less could be a good mechanism for generating new clients. This is a service that people would use, and because you're a stake-holding user it makes it much more valuable than one of those companies that runs an accessibility tool and summarizes the results. Having worked for a software consulting company that's built accessible software in the past, your testing service offering would be valuable but probably not something that a full-time position would have been created for.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
livinglist 4y ago
I been working on Hacker News mobile app for a while now, it would be awesome if you can offer some suggestions on accessibility of the app. https://github.com/Livinglist/Hacki https://github.com/Livinglist/Hacki
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Which platform is your app on? iOS or Android?
  - livinglist 4y ago
    It’s available on both platforms.
sydd 4y ago
Try to look for jobs in edtech. To be able to use a software in a US classroom its a hard requirement to be accessible, so edtech companies are always on the lookout for a11y engineers.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yeah, in my area there are couple I already applied for, but they didn't respond because I didn't list the required BA or formal education they wanted. But I won't give up, I will keep trying. Thanks.
fvztdk 4y ago
You can try to reach out to Lucas Radaelli https://twitter.com/lucasradaelli https://twitter.com/lucasradaelli for conseling, he is blind and developer at Google and works with accesibility projects.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Blind Googler! really awesome, I would contact him, even though I don't like much using Twitter. Thanks.
miohtama 4y ago
Posting on HackerNews is a very good start! (: Hopefully one the comments yields to an offer.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yes, I thought HN is where smart people hang out. At first, I thought posting on Reddit, but for some reason Reddit isn't what it used to be, the demographics of Reddit is different, the topics and discussions is different, it seems to me Reddit's users are younger nowadays compared to Good Old Days.
rightbyte 4y ago
From a practical point, won't it be hard to know if the app is working if you can't see e.g. a field that the reader skips? It might be outweighted by that you are good with the tools though.
- nkrisc 4y ago
  > From a practical point, won't it be hard to know if the app is working if you can't see e.g. a field that the reader skips? It wouldn’t be a very good test if they weren’t first provided with the expected outcome…
- Klathmon 4y ago
  Can't you say the same thing about a sighted tester who misses a field that the developer forgot to implement?
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  That's actually a good question, accessibility testing is meant for blind people, so what I will be testing is whether the component on the screen is readable by the screen reader. For example, one company that really makes all their apps accessible to the blind is Apple, every component, every gesture you could possible make sighted or otherwise is described by the screen reader (VoiceOVer). One company that has a poor accessibility, in other hand, is Chipotle. In my iPhone whenever I am using to order from the Chipotle app, I have to use the magnify the screen to see my remaining vision, otherwise VoiceOver won't tell me what the menu says. I am surprised Chipotle hasn't been sued for this since the app is straight up not accessible to totally blind people. One other fast food company that has a really good accessibility (at least in iOS) is Mcdonallds, every menu item is described extensively, and I could order anything blindfolded. Hey, Chipotle, follow McDonald's path and Apple, and make your app accessible, otherwise some blind guy will sue you in a federal court for not offering accessible shop for your restaurants.
mittermayr 4y ago
I currently don't have a concrete opportunity for you but maybe something to consider: I occasionally teach at universities, and students often learn about accessibility as a general topic but have zero insight into what it actually means, as in: how a real person with an actual disability is using assistive software. I sometimes show them YouTube videos of people explaining their screen readers. I am sure that universities could be interested in some kind of package, where they bring you on remotely, perhaps, and you can do a live session of reviewing something students designed, or talk to them about things most apps/websites tend to get wrong (are cookie nags extra annoying/complicated to deal with to you, or do you even stand a chance at unclicking some of those tracking options, how about apps without buttons, mostly controlled by gestures, etc.). As a teacher, I didn't know even where to start reaching out to someone (at the time when I wanted to do something about it) who could actually show students how they "see" (or not see) those websites and apps. Again, I think this is something you should most definitely get paid for (it's super valuable), I didn't have the ability to get a budget at the time, but would have had a much easier internal pitch for it if there was someone already offering this as a package deal kind of thing. Like, a 2 hour call before a project, then students work on it, and you come back in for another 2 hours at the end of class / semester to review. Anyways, I'm rambling on, but I always felt like this is something that would be valuable and also struggled with connecting the right pieces to make it happen. If you're into web development, too, or maybe even just Notion could work, would be a potential indie project, too — a "hand-crafted job site / market place" of accessibility services / experts."
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Thank you for that suggestion, I never thought that kind of teaching opportunity. Yes, I already have a YouTube channel that I post Java Tutorials, so I may start "reviewing apps in accessibility focus", that's really a good route, thank you for pointing out this. I can create websites with Flask & Django, but my styling CSS is not good; because I can't seem to find the right ways to layout a website, I always create a website that is '90s-style, which is not what the vast majority of people want nowadays.
  - mittermayr 4y ago
migf 4y ago
I have two leads for you. DM me for details.
- password4321 4y ago
  You have to put contact info in your profile manually.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Can you please email me, my email is found in my profile. Thank you.
karpour 4y ago
Do you have any contact info? If you're available for freelance work, I'll note down your contact, since we plan to do accessibility testing in the future :)
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yes, my contact email is in my profile. Please contact when you have an opportunity for me, thanks by the way.
dten 4y ago
My company does tons of accessibility testing, and I imagine that someone who can code too would be a big benefit. I’d be happy to talk in dms, I can get you to the right people.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  My contact email is in my profile, please contact. Thanks.
29athrowaway 4y ago
Accessibility is incredibly important and unfortunately it is often treated as a nice to have addition to products. Most MVPs do not consider accessibility.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yes, you are right, I've noticed as well. But I can see how an indie-dev, who's usually working on with small budget, thinks accessibility is too expensive and a "luxury" thing. As someone who writes apps both in Swift & Java, but never published an app, I understand the other things that are important to do first.
ensemblehq 4y ago
With your skillset, I’d highly recommend starting your own consultancy. There’s likely an incredible demand for you can offer. I’m also interested in connecting to see if there’s any opportunity with the projects that come my way. I’d love to keep in touch. Cheers!
- peterb 4y ago
  +1. Accessibility is in huge demand right now and setting up a consultancy could be very interesting for you as you get to see issues and patterns across companies. Most, if not all, Fortune 500 companies are interested accessibility.
  - SpaceL10n 4y ago
    +1 again but it's not just the Fortune 500. My employer (15 employees) hired a blind technology consultant when we were designing a kiosk for a major US Airport. We invited a blind user from a local non-profit advocacy group to come try our product and talk to us about our choices of tactile controls, audio feedback cues, etc... From that one engagement, we received immensely valuable insight into the average blind user's fears and expectations when it comes to dealing with kiosks in public. There's a definite need for expertise in this space.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  That is really a good point offering consultation to companies would be a good idea. But what I am afraid is that most companies, don't consider accessibility something they have to do if it is not a physical accessibility even though ADA requires companies to treat the two aspects the same. Digital accessibility is one of those things most companies put "nice to have"category but aren't necessary, I can't count how many big companies that I've used their site/app and it is not accessible at all: luckily I have a few remaining sight, so I can struggle to magnify components on the screen to see, but what do you think a totally blind person would do?
matisseverduyn 4y ago
Hey! Would you mind reaching out to me via Twitter @matisseverduyn? Thanks!
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I don't use Twitter, but I will re-open my old Twitter and contact you.
  - matisseverduyn 4y ago
    Ok! Great. Same username on LinkedIn, if that's more convenient?
notjustanymike 4y ago
It sounds like you'd be incredibly useful for the spirit of accessibility, but need to work on your knowledge of the rules of accessibility. When we build accessible applications at our company, we have to comply with every rule of "WCAG AA 2.1" to satisfy our clients. A professional audit of our product would result in a report of exactly which rules we need to address, along with suggestions for possible changes. I would use this to satisfy the accessibility portion of our contracts. So an accessibility expert is, among other things, a compliance officer who provides credible proof that a company is actively respecting the ADA.
- underscoredash 4y ago
  Yep, accessible is different from compliant
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yes, you are right, I have to be educated on this area. I am working on it now, I am looking for a legit course that is accredited. Thank you for your suggestion.
qwerty456127 4y ago
> I regularly use pretty much all screen readers except Orca, I use VoiceOver for anything Apple makes, JAWS or NVDA anything Windows, and Talkback in Android. I know a blind person who apparently never heard about anything of these. Do you know some good intros?
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I can't think of any particular channel that focuses on accessibility, but I am pretty sure they're a lot of people talking about it. What device does this blind person uses PC or Mobile?
  - qwerty456127 4y ago
    He doesn't use much devices so far (besides a vintage button-based cellphone), just tells other people what to do and they read to him. Nevertheless he has a very good idea about computer programming so he is really far from being completely alien to the tech world. I believe I have a chance of enriching his life if I suggest some ways to dive into using a PC directly. I am not sure he wants that but maybe I should mention this and be able to provide practical details if he chooses to ask. Don't worry, I can do my research myself. I just asked because there might be a chance you or someone else just knew a great place to start.
saasxyz 4y ago
I wish my best of luck to you to land on a job sooner. I have prepared a sheet for anyone to add a job if you have an opportunity for differently abled people. I hope this can help more differently abled people to find jobs. Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147BBCEAlTqnSvdm4V1H4D7VRqQmIXykhlTCqHxuFvmg/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147BBCEAlTqnSvdm4V1H4... Good luck.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Thank you, I appreciate your effort. I will read that document after I finish answering to all the people who asked questions on here.
jianglinlian 4y ago
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hiidrew 4y ago
I would try to target industries where accessibility is a legal requirement, like banking, healthcare, etc. I'm sure there may be more but those are the few that come to mind. I work for a bank and know we have both a large accessibility team and a blind developer (although I don't think he's on that specific team).
- ericrallen 4y ago
  OP, this is what you’re looking for. I used to work with a lot of financial services companies, and having a skilled programmer who is also a screen reader user and could help us really understand if our accessible interfaces were helpful and not just checking boxes would have been huge. I was on various UI and platform teams, and across a large software organization I think we had one developer with low vision, so he helped us make sure that everything was able to scale properly, and another with limited dexterity who helped us validate keyboard accessibility, but no screen reader users. A lot of banks are Java shops and have teams that are dedicated to accessibility, but pay huge amounts to 3rd parties like Deque to help them test and verify Accessibility (a11y) and provide training for their teams. Most of the Accessibility work happens in the front end, but I’m sure there’s room somewhere for a blind Java programmer - especially if you learn more about a11y and the front end. You might also want to look into companies like Deque who are promoting a11y and helping other companies build more accessible interfaces.
underscoredash 4y ago
Check out Level Access in Vienna Virginia (https://www.levelaccess.com/contact/ https://www.levelaccess.com/contact/) A few years ago I worked for this company as an Accessibility Analyst alongside many blind programmers who provided expert perspectives on the websites and apps the company was contracted to remediate. It sounds like what you are looking for. Last I knew, they had multiple office locations and some remote contractors. They would probably be delighted to work out a remote/hybrid arrangement. Good luck!
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Thank you for your suggestion, I really appreciate your tip. I willl go to that website and contact them.
theloco 4y ago
TBH, if they're not, all major websites should be looking to contract with you. I would maybe try hitting up the major agencies if you're looking for fulltime work, they have lots of clients and probably get requests for accessibility often. I think you could also get work just by being a prolific advocate for accessible web.
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  I already couple of agencies in my state, but the problem I am facing is that most companies (governmental agencies included), don't consider accessibility as important or necessary, maybe they believe that way because they're not educated what digital accessibility is and how it is part of the ADA (a federal law). Some HR person once even said to me, "that will expose to our system to 'hacking'". I think people don't know much about digital accessibility, most people associate accessibility to only physical sense. So, thank you for suggesting advocacy route: that is really a good idea. I have to start that, maybe there'll some opportunities there. Thanks!
tylermenezes 4y ago
In addition to all the recommendations here, if you're not already a member you might be interested in joining the Program-l listserv: https://www.freelists.org/list/program-l https://www.freelists.org/list/program-l
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  VI programmers, awesome, I will check out their website. Thanks.
m3kw9 4y ago
Banks, they are required to implement accessibility and they have hiring policies to hire some disabled, and you could be a big asset in testing these
- blindprogrammer 4y ago
  Yes, there's a federal law that requires all banks as well as most companies to be accessible. But the question is: how can I pass the HR wall, I am pretty confident if I was given a chance to prove my skills, I can. But the issue is, is that opportunity ever available?
calvinmorrison 4y ago
Check out A360, it's a firm we worked with for accessibility testing our sites and they hire people who are partially sighted or blind
Marconius 4y ago
Hi there, I'm a blind accessibility specialist and now a senior native mobile accessibility coach with Deque. Knowing how to use the assistive technology is one thing, but you'll need to know WCAG and the applicable criteria for native apps if you want to start testing. I highly recommend you check out https://dequeuniversity.com https://dequeuniversity.com in order to gain functional and in-depth knowledge of the ADA WCAG, Section 508 standards, and international accessibility standards. I learned my tech skills at the Lighthouse in SF years ago after I suddenly went blind in 2014, so they are a good resource for learning skills and getting connected with focus and research studies for local tech companies, but definitely go through Deque University as a priority.
schwartzworld 4y ago
If I were you, I would position myself as an educator and consultant on the subject. Most UI developers have picked up tidbits here and there about accessibility. You can get pretty far by honoring semantic html and you learn other things through reading, receiving code feedback etc. But I don't know anybody who tests their code rigorously using the same tools that an actual blind person would use. I understand sighted workflows, but not blind ones. We strive for 100% accessibility but everybody only knows what they know. I think that you could very easily establish yourself as the a11y guy and make money through several routes including - auditing websites for a11y - training staff - offering paid online content / courses - independently auditing websites and using your results to sell them in fixing it or training staff Obviously the trick of this is that you have to have some kind of track record as the a11y guy. Let me tell you I would read the heck out of a blog written by a blind developer talking about good and bad websites that he has to interact with. I would absolutely watch YouTube videos about it. And if you reached out to a business and told them "hey, your website is unusable for blind people, but I can help fix it for $___", I think that many of them would take it seriously.
shenphong 4y ago
Just caught this after a friend send it through, if you or anyone else is interested, please reach out to me at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-p-le-20454736/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-p-le-20454736/ I started in education then migrated to tech with accessibility testing and now currently work as an accessibility analyst at Google. Would love to connect.

oulipo 4y ago

Can you tell me more about your setup for navigation and coding on Windows, I'm interested because I need to help someone who lost his sight learn keyboard typing and coding

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I currently don't own a Windows machine, but when I had a Windows computer, I would use InteliJ IDE for my Java programming, I also use Android Studio for making Android apps. JAWS, one of the paid screen readers works both programs really well. Visual Studio (ironically named!), is surprisingly accessible both in Windows and Mac. One other screen reader, although I don't use it much is called NVDA (Non-Visual Desktop Access) which is free. Other programs that are really accessible is Sublime Text, at least for me. I will make a video describing all the programs I use daily to write code as a blind programmer in YouTube channel.

wilsonjohn 4y ago

You can also connect with https://visionaid.org https://visionaid.org. They are a non profit who offer accessibility testing. Maybe you'll be able to join their team. We recently tested our product with them.

leipert 4y ago

As far as I know, there are special agencies that help companies or government agencies with their accessibility goals. I assume they have a more diverse set of employees and would be open to hire you. When I looked into hiring someone for a company directly, I was told that because of HIPAA laws you cannot advertise „we want to hire blind programmer“.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
That makes sense, because that would be discrimination. But I wonder how Hooters can get away with only hiring "models" whatever that means? But I think the term "attractive" is a lot more liquid than being "blind" which is rigid and legally defined. Thank you for your comment, really helpful.

ihateolives 4y ago

Contact Jakob at https://sparrowaccess.com/ https://sparrowaccess.com/ He's doing exactly that. Helpful guy, maybe he has some tips for you.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I will do that, thank you for the suggestion.

modestmc 4y ago

Your joke was good, alas my sense of humor is a little rusty. Hopefully my delivery there sounded good on your end, I have no helpful advice but best of luck!

just-tom 4y ago
Whoever downvoted you clearly didn't read the whole post and thought you we're referring to the post as the joke, not the actual joke inside it.
blindprogrammer 4y ago
haha

bcx 4y ago

We (Olark YC S09) are in the process of building out a fully accessible platform for realtime communication (live chat, bots/automations) for both agents and visitors, and regularly work with folks to help our team test and improve our work -- it's still early days Progress Not Perfection :). I am definitely interesting in talking, you can apply as a tester here: https://www.olark.com/ada-accessible-live-chat https://www.olark.com/ada-accessible-live-chat And you can ping me personally on Linkedin if you want to chat more. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/bencongleton https://www.linkedin.com/in/bencongleton) We work with both individuals often as contractors, and agencies as well. You might want to talk to the folks at lighthouse SF, they do consulting for a lot of tech companies, and have a matching program, I am actually going to be at their offices Thursday, so I can follow up with best way to get in touch, but I'd assume the emails on the below link will get you what you need. https://lighthouse-sf.org/programs/access-technology/ https://lighthouse-sf.org/programs/access-technology/ And we've also worked with Fable who manages engagements like what you are looking for: https://makeitfable.com/community/ https://makeitfable.com/community/

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Thank you very much for your offer, I will apply the tester job. Lighthouse SF, that's pretty interesting, I may contact them for opportunities. My Email is in my profile, so if you see any opportunities, let me know. I really appreciate for taking the time to write this and giving me the chance for this opportunity. Thanks.

forgotmypw17 4y ago

I develop a FOSS project that prioritizes accessibility, and I haven't had any screenreader testing in a hot minute. I would appreciate even a little bit of testing. How can one contact you?

blindprogrammer 4y ago
My contact email is in my profile, please contact me.

SimonPStevens 4y ago

Have you tried working freelance? I've had several big projects in the past where we've had accessibility requirements to meet and it always involves training testers and developers in the tools. I'd have happily paid a someone to consult on best approaches, run the tests, maybe train a few people to keep it going.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Couple of people in here already have suggested I start an agency that consult accessibility, so I will start that soon. I have to get couple of classes on accessibility to check off some formal education checkmark, because a lot of people won't take me seriously if my professional opinion isn't backed up with some sort of formal education. Even though, I use screen readers daily to write code, to read articles, even to do some light editing with iMovie since I have few remaining eyesight.
- SimonPStevens 4y ago
  The formal certificates will help in some situations, but don't assume you need them for everything right from the start. Speaking for myself, I would have happily hired a consultant with the experience of being blind themselves over anyone with a certificate. Another thought is that for one of the projects I had the accessibility requirement came from the UK government. It was a project being used in a public service department and it was a requirement for them that every bit of software they purchased was accessible. If you're in the UK you may find the public sector is a good place the look.

matsemann 4y ago

When I've done frontend work for government agencies, we have contacted the national association for blind people in my country, and gotten help from them (Norges Blindeforbund / The Norwegian Association of the Blind and Partially Sighted). Could you perhaps reach out to a similar organization where you live and tell them of your services, so that when others reach out to that organization for help they can refer them to you?

blindprogrammer 4y ago
That is really a good idea! I live in USA, each state have their own state IT department that handles all IT stuff. So, if I email people who work there, they could refer some work to me.

BaudouinVH 4y ago

I am currently working alongside blind/vision impaired persons that are auditing/coding web sites for accessibility. Do you live in Belgium by any chance ?

blindprogrammer 4y ago
No, I don't live in Belgium. But keep the good work!

tomashubelbauer 4y ago

I worked alongside a blind programmer in one of my past teams and AFAIK the company hired him as a consultant and found him through his work in my country's organization for blind people. I'd highly recommend joining such a group in your area as it seems likely they will be able to get you in touch with companies. If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they'd have been approached by companies before. (They had been? They'll have been? I am not sure what tense to use. ESL)

mkl 4y ago
"they'll have been", since you're using present tense ("is"). If you'd said "was" instead (not correct for this statement, just an example), "they'd have been" would be right.
- richrichardsson 4y ago
  This a tricky one. > If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they'd have been approached by companies before The approaching took place in the past, so I'm not sure I follow why using "is" makes anything present tense other than the conditional clause? The group must be "at least somewhat big" in the present for the conditional clause to be true, and the main clause is somewhat separate. The expansion of "they'll have been" is "they will have been", which sounds perfectly fine. In my mind the expansion of the original sentence would be, "If the group is at least somewhat big, chances are they would have had been approached by companies before". In spoken communication you would likely drop that "had", but it's also perfectly normal to contract it as OP did. But in written form I think it's too much of a stretch to replace "would have ha" with an apostrophe.
jgwil2 4y ago
Re grammar, "they'll have been" works but I would just keep it simple: "chances are they have been."

nicewarmvalley 4y ago

One blind accessibility tester i had the pleasure working with got his position at a national government agency by sending a complaint about the poor accessibility for blind people on their websites. The response was an invitation to a job interview!

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Interesting, I always thought those complaints usually go to unanswered email inbox, but if people actually answer these, I may try writing to these governmental agencies sites and apps.
- nicewarmvalley 4y ago
  He probably had great timing/luck with his complaint, but I guess an open application with an agenda disguised as a complaint can be effective if it reaches the right people at the right time. Good luck!

gnicholas 4y ago

Check out Fable: https://makeitfable.com/ https://makeitfable.com/

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I actually applied this week, and I am waiting for a response. Thanks.

pushfoo 4y ago

You may want to reach out to Dr. Sile O’Modhrain (https://smtd.umich.edu/faculty-profiles/sile-omodhrain/ https://smtd.umich.edu/faculty-profiles/sile-omodhrain/). She is a highly experienced blind researcher & a co-founder of NewHaptics, a tactile display startup (https://www.newhaptics.com/ https://www.newhaptics.com/). Even if you want to focus on accessibility testing rather than hardware, Dr. O'Modhrain may be able to connect you with useful guidance. I would also mention your programming experience in case NewHaptics is looking for someone to help with testing hardware, firmware, or drivers.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
That's really interesting, a blind researcher doing hardware? that's really impressive. I actually was doing a hobby project where I wanted to create a height adjustable desk with Raspberry Pi, but I didn't finish because I couldn't find vertical actuators: I will most definitely contact to the Dr. Thank you!

2rsf 4y ago

Maybe one of the crowd testing platforms? what you offer, accessibility testing for vision impaired people, is important and (should be) done in every company for every product an iteration but in reality it is quite rare. A company don't test accessibility for every small change and release, so you'll need to either find a team with a lot of products or offer your services to different clients.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yeah, you are right accessibility is one of those edge areas that most companies don't make it a priority. But in the U.S there's a federal law that requires if you have a website or an app that is meant for public use, that website or app must be accessible to blind people, Dominos was sued recently for making their website not accessible to blind folk. It is like of those issues where companies don't act until the government forces their hand.

andrewstuart 4y ago

Write about your work. Post it everywhere. LinkedIn, Reddit, your blog. Start every post saying your looking for work.

hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
This ties right into what my advice was going to be: start a consulting practice to help organizations make their software accessible by performing audits and providing recommendations. Come up with a menu of services w/pricing and post them on your site. An option that's a few hundred bucks or less could be a good mechanism for generating new clients. This is a service that people would use, and because you're a stake-holding user it makes it much more valuable than one of those companies that runs an accessibility tool and summarizes the results. Having worked for a software consulting company that's built accessible software in the past, your testing service offering would be valuable but probably not something that a full-time position would have been created for.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

livinglist 4y ago

I been working on Hacker News mobile app for a while now, it would be awesome if you can offer some suggestions on accessibility of the app. https://github.com/Livinglist/Hacki https://github.com/Livinglist/Hacki

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Which platform is your app on? iOS or Android?
- livinglist 4y ago
  It’s available on both platforms.

sydd 4y ago

Try to look for jobs in edtech. To be able to use a software in a US classroom its a hard requirement to be accessible, so edtech companies are always on the lookout for a11y engineers.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yeah, in my area there are couple I already applied for, but they didn't respond because I didn't list the required BA or formal education they wanted. But I won't give up, I will keep trying. Thanks.

fvztdk 4y ago

You can try to reach out to Lucas Radaelli https://twitter.com/lucasradaelli https://twitter.com/lucasradaelli for conseling, he is blind and developer at Google and works with accesibility projects.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Blind Googler! really awesome, I would contact him, even though I don't like much using Twitter. Thanks.

miohtama 4y ago

Posting on HackerNews is a very good start! (: Hopefully one the comments yields to an offer.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, I thought HN is where smart people hang out. At first, I thought posting on Reddit, but for some reason Reddit isn't what it used to be, the demographics of Reddit is different, the topics and discussions is different, it seems to me Reddit's users are younger nowadays compared to Good Old Days.

rightbyte 4y ago

From a practical point, won't it be hard to know if the app is working if you can't see e.g. a field that the reader skips? It might be outweighted by that you are good with the tools though.

nkrisc 4y ago
> From a practical point, won't it be hard to know if the app is working if you can't see e.g. a field that the reader skips? It wouldn’t be a very good test if they weren’t first provided with the expected outcome…
Klathmon 4y ago
Can't you say the same thing about a sighted tester who misses a field that the developer forgot to implement?
blindprogrammer 4y ago
That's actually a good question, accessibility testing is meant for blind people, so what I will be testing is whether the component on the screen is readable by the screen reader. For example, one company that really makes all their apps accessible to the blind is Apple, every component, every gesture you could possible make sighted or otherwise is described by the screen reader (VoiceOVer). One company that has a poor accessibility, in other hand, is Chipotle. In my iPhone whenever I am using to order from the Chipotle app, I have to use the magnify the screen to see my remaining vision, otherwise VoiceOver won't tell me what the menu says. I am surprised Chipotle hasn't been sued for this since the app is straight up not accessible to totally blind people. One other fast food company that has a really good accessibility (at least in iOS) is Mcdonallds, every menu item is described extensively, and I could order anything blindfolded. Hey, Chipotle, follow McDonald's path and Apple, and make your app accessible, otherwise some blind guy will sue you in a federal court for not offering accessible shop for your restaurants.

mittermayr 4y ago

I currently don't have a concrete opportunity for you but maybe something to consider: I occasionally teach at universities, and students often learn about accessibility as a general topic but have zero insight into what it actually means, as in: how a real person with an actual disability is using assistive software. I sometimes show them YouTube videos of people explaining their screen readers. I am sure that universities could be interested in some kind of package, where they bring you on remotely, perhaps, and you can do a live session of reviewing something students designed, or talk to them about things most apps/websites tend to get wrong (are cookie nags extra annoying/complicated to deal with to you, or do you even stand a chance at unclicking some of those tracking options, how about apps without buttons, mostly controlled by gestures, etc.). As a teacher, I didn't know even where to start reaching out to someone (at the time when I wanted to do something about it) who could actually show students how they "see" (or not see) those websites and apps. Again, I think this is something you should most definitely get paid for (it's super valuable), I didn't have the ability to get a budget at the time, but would have had a much easier internal pitch for it if there was someone already offering this as a package deal kind of thing. Like, a 2 hour call before a project, then students work on it, and you come back in for another 2 hours at the end of class / semester to review. Anyways, I'm rambling on, but I always felt like this is something that would be valuable and also struggled with connecting the right pieces to make it happen. If you're into web development, too, or maybe even just Notion could work, would be a potential indie project, too — a "hand-crafted job site / market place" of accessibility services / experts."

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Thank you for that suggestion, I never thought that kind of teaching opportunity. Yes, I already have a YouTube channel that I post Java Tutorials, so I may start "reviewing apps in accessibility focus", that's really a good route, thank you for pointing out this. I can create websites with Flask & Django, but my styling CSS is not good; because I can't seem to find the right ways to layout a website, I always create a website that is '90s-style, which is not what the vast majority of people want nowadays.
- mittermayr 4y ago

migf 4y ago

I have two leads for you. DM me for details.

password4321 4y ago
You have to put contact info in your profile manually.
blindprogrammer 4y ago
Can you please email me, my email is found in my profile. Thank you.

karpour 4y ago

Do you have any contact info? If you're available for freelance work, I'll note down your contact, since we plan to do accessibility testing in the future :)

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, my contact email is in my profile. Please contact when you have an opportunity for me, thanks by the way.

dten 4y ago

My company does tons of accessibility testing, and I imagine that someone who can code too would be a big benefit. I’d be happy to talk in dms, I can get you to the right people.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
My contact email is in my profile, please contact. Thanks.

29athrowaway 4y ago

Accessibility is incredibly important and unfortunately it is often treated as a nice to have addition to products. Most MVPs do not consider accessibility.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, you are right, I've noticed as well. But I can see how an indie-dev, who's usually working on with small budget, thinks accessibility is too expensive and a "luxury" thing. As someone who writes apps both in Swift & Java, but never published an app, I understand the other things that are important to do first.

ensemblehq 4y ago

With your skillset, I’d highly recommend starting your own consultancy. There’s likely an incredible demand for you can offer. I’m also interested in connecting to see if there’s any opportunity with the projects that come my way. I’d love to keep in touch. Cheers!

peterb 4y ago
+1. Accessibility is in huge demand right now and setting up a consultancy could be very interesting for you as you get to see issues and patterns across companies. Most, if not all, Fortune 500 companies are interested accessibility.
- SpaceL10n 4y ago
  +1 again but it's not just the Fortune 500. My employer (15 employees) hired a blind technology consultant when we were designing a kiosk for a major US Airport. We invited a blind user from a local non-profit advocacy group to come try our product and talk to us about our choices of tactile controls, audio feedback cues, etc... From that one engagement, we received immensely valuable insight into the average blind user's fears and expectations when it comes to dealing with kiosks in public. There's a definite need for expertise in this space.
blindprogrammer 4y ago
That is really a good point offering consultation to companies would be a good idea. But what I am afraid is that most companies, don't consider accessibility something they have to do if it is not a physical accessibility even though ADA requires companies to treat the two aspects the same. Digital accessibility is one of those things most companies put "nice to have"category but aren't necessary, I can't count how many big companies that I've used their site/app and it is not accessible at all: luckily I have a few remaining sight, so I can struggle to magnify components on the screen to see, but what do you think a totally blind person would do?

matisseverduyn 4y ago

Hey! Would you mind reaching out to me via Twitter @matisseverduyn? Thanks!

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I don't use Twitter, but I will re-open my old Twitter and contact you.
- matisseverduyn 4y ago
  Ok! Great. Same username on LinkedIn, if that's more convenient?

notjustanymike 4y ago

It sounds like you'd be incredibly useful for the spirit of accessibility, but need to work on your knowledge of the rules of accessibility. When we build accessible applications at our company, we have to comply with every rule of "WCAG AA 2.1" to satisfy our clients. A professional audit of our product would result in a report of exactly which rules we need to address, along with suggestions for possible changes. I would use this to satisfy the accessibility portion of our contracts. So an accessibility expert is, among other things, a compliance officer who provides credible proof that a company is actively respecting the ADA.

underscoredash 4y ago
Yep, accessible is different from compliant
blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, you are right, I have to be educated on this area. I am working on it now, I am looking for a legit course that is accredited. Thank you for your suggestion.

qwerty456127 4y ago

> I regularly use pretty much all screen readers except Orca, I use VoiceOver for anything Apple makes, JAWS or NVDA anything Windows, and Talkback in Android. I know a blind person who apparently never heard about anything of these. Do you know some good intros?

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I can't think of any particular channel that focuses on accessibility, but I am pretty sure they're a lot of people talking about it. What device does this blind person uses PC or Mobile?
- qwerty456127 4y ago
  He doesn't use much devices so far (besides a vintage button-based cellphone), just tells other people what to do and they read to him. Nevertheless he has a very good idea about computer programming so he is really far from being completely alien to the tech world. I believe I have a chance of enriching his life if I suggest some ways to dive into using a PC directly. I am not sure he wants that but maybe I should mention this and be able to provide practical details if he chooses to ask. Don't worry, I can do my research myself. I just asked because there might be a chance you or someone else just knew a great place to start.

saasxyz 4y ago

I wish my best of luck to you to land on a job sooner. I have prepared a sheet for anyone to add a job if you have an opportunity for differently abled people. I hope this can help more differently abled people to find jobs. Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147BBCEAlTqnSvdm4V1H4D7VRqQmIXykhlTCqHxuFvmg/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147BBCEAlTqnSvdm4V1H4... Good luck.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Thank you, I appreciate your effort. I will read that document after I finish answering to all the people who asked questions on here.

jianglinlian 4y ago

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hiidrew 4y ago

I would try to target industries where accessibility is a legal requirement, like banking, healthcare, etc. I'm sure there may be more but those are the few that come to mind. I work for a bank and know we have both a large accessibility team and a blind developer (although I don't think he's on that specific team).

ericrallen 4y ago
OP, this is what you’re looking for. I used to work with a lot of financial services companies, and having a skilled programmer who is also a screen reader user and could help us really understand if our accessible interfaces were helpful and not just checking boxes would have been huge. I was on various UI and platform teams, and across a large software organization I think we had one developer with low vision, so he helped us make sure that everything was able to scale properly, and another with limited dexterity who helped us validate keyboard accessibility, but no screen reader users. A lot of banks are Java shops and have teams that are dedicated to accessibility, but pay huge amounts to 3rd parties like Deque to help them test and verify Accessibility (a11y) and provide training for their teams. Most of the Accessibility work happens in the front end, but I’m sure there’s room somewhere for a blind Java programmer - especially if you learn more about a11y and the front end. You might also want to look into companies like Deque who are promoting a11y and helping other companies build more accessible interfaces.

underscoredash 4y ago

Check out Level Access in Vienna Virginia (https://www.levelaccess.com/contact/ https://www.levelaccess.com/contact/) A few years ago I worked for this company as an Accessibility Analyst alongside many blind programmers who provided expert perspectives on the websites and apps the company was contracted to remediate. It sounds like what you are looking for. Last I knew, they had multiple office locations and some remote contractors. They would probably be delighted to work out a remote/hybrid arrangement. Good luck!

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Thank you for your suggestion, I really appreciate your tip. I willl go to that website and contact them.

theloco 4y ago

TBH, if they're not, all major websites should be looking to contract with you. I would maybe try hitting up the major agencies if you're looking for fulltime work, they have lots of clients and probably get requests for accessibility often. I think you could also get work just by being a prolific advocate for accessible web.

blindprogrammer 4y ago
I already couple of agencies in my state, but the problem I am facing is that most companies (governmental agencies included), don't consider accessibility as important or necessary, maybe they believe that way because they're not educated what digital accessibility is and how it is part of the ADA (a federal law). Some HR person once even said to me, "that will expose to our system to 'hacking'". I think people don't know much about digital accessibility, most people associate accessibility to only physical sense. So, thank you for suggesting advocacy route: that is really a good idea. I have to start that, maybe there'll some opportunities there. Thanks!

tylermenezes 4y ago

In addition to all the recommendations here, if you're not already a member you might be interested in joining the Program-l listserv: https://www.freelists.org/list/program-l https://www.freelists.org/list/program-l

blindprogrammer 4y ago
VI programmers, awesome, I will check out their website. Thanks.

m3kw9 4y ago

Banks, they are required to implement accessibility and they have hiring policies to hire some disabled, and you could be a big asset in testing these

blindprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, there's a federal law that requires all banks as well as most companies to be accessible. But the question is: how can I pass the HR wall, I am pretty confident if I was given a chance to prove my skills, I can. But the issue is, is that opportunity ever available?

calvinmorrison 4y ago

Check out A360, it's a firm we worked with for accessibility testing our sites and they hire people who are partially sighted or blind

Marconius 4y ago

Hi there, I'm a blind accessibility specialist and now a senior native mobile accessibility coach with Deque. Knowing how to use the assistive technology is one thing, but you'll need to know WCAG and the applicable criteria for native apps if you want to start testing. I highly recommend you check out https://dequeuniversity.com https://dequeuniversity.com in order to gain functional and in-depth knowledge of the ADA WCAG, Section 508 standards, and international accessibility standards. I learned my tech skills at the Lighthouse in SF years ago after I suddenly went blind in 2014, so they are a good resource for learning skills and getting connected with focus and research studies for local tech companies, but definitely go through Deque University as a priority.

schwartzworld 4y ago

If I were you, I would position myself as an educator and consultant on the subject. Most UI developers have picked up tidbits here and there about accessibility. You can get pretty far by honoring semantic html and you learn other things through reading, receiving code feedback etc. But I don't know anybody who tests their code rigorously using the same tools that an actual blind person would use. I understand sighted workflows, but not blind ones. We strive for 100% accessibility but everybody only knows what they know. I think that you could very easily establish yourself as the a11y guy and make money through several routes including - auditing websites for a11y - training staff - offering paid online content / courses - independently auditing websites and using your results to sell them in fixing it or training staff Obviously the trick of this is that you have to have some kind of track record as the a11y guy. Let me tell you I would read the heck out of a blog written by a blind developer talking about good and bad websites that he has to interact with. I would absolutely watch YouTube videos about it. And if you reached out to a business and told them "hey, your website is unusable for blind people, but I can help fix it for $___", I think that many of them would take it seriously.

shenphong 4y ago

Just caught this after a friend send it through, if you or anyone else is interested, please reach out to me at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-p-le-20454736/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-p-le-20454736/ I started in education then migrated to tech with accessibility testing and now currently work as an accessibility analyst at Google. Would love to connect.