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You say that like it's a problem. Look at it this way: Does Ubuntu or OS X suffer from being pirated? Not really. Windows needs to figure this out for themselv

You say that like it's a problem. Look at it this way: Does Ubuntu or OS X suffer from being pirated? Not really. Windows needs to figure this out for themselves.

VMG 15y ago
It likely is a problem for all those people who pirate Windows
comicjk 15y ago
We certainly don't want all OSs confined to closed hardware like OS X. Ubuntu (and open source in general) works because of inverse-free-riders, "free helpers" we might call them. That seems to be a sustainable model, but it likely won't work for annoying grunt programming - note the poor driver support in many Linux distros. For some tasks, someone needs to be paid.
- treeform 15y ago
  A big couse in pour drivers support is that companies dont publish specs to their devices. If there was only one dominant free OS like linux, companies that make hardwire would want their devices to work with it and so will write drivers or at least publish full spec.
- aklofas 15y ago
  Windows doesn't write driver software either. It's up to the hardware companies to make their hardware compatible if they want to sell it. Windows just happens to have the largest market share. If Linux had even one tenth the share of windows, drivers wouldn't be an issue.
- pilom 15y ago
  I disagree that it is really sustainable on an industry wide scale. Who pays the salaries of the free helpers so that they have the free time to contribute?
grantheaslip 15y ago
So you’re saying that because people are stealing their software, Microsoft should throw away their business model? If people were stealing iPads from Apple stores, would you suggest Apple should “figure [that] out for themselves”?
- tikhonj 15y ago
  First of all, copying is completely different from stealing, but we've been over that before. Secondly, stores actually do deal with shoplifting--they euphemistically call it "inventory shrinkage" and just chalk it up as an expense. "Unauthorized" copying isn't even an expense!
  - grantheaslip 15y ago
    Fair point — I was being a bit facetious — but the fact remains that if a critical enough mass of people steal/copy Windows, it’s no longer economically viable. Every user who hasn’t paid for it is being subsidized by those who have. Windows may not be the best example since it’s so massively profitable, and sells a lot to enterprise customers and OEMs who won’t pirate it. That said, I suspect the business case for producing high-budget, non-mass-market consumer content (say, HBO shows) is starting to tip. How many people pirate Game of Thrones for every one that pays for it? In the end, we live in a capitalist society — the people making software, movies, music, books, etc. have to get paid for the stuff be made.
    - v0cab 15y ago
      They don't have to make that stuff. They can try to find something else to do instead.
      - grantheaslip 15y ago
        If there was legitimately no demand for these products, then sure, they should move on and make something else instead. But there is a demand for them — it’s just that many of the people consuming it are stealing it. This is what laws are there for. Again, I know this analogy isn’t perfect, but what you’ve said is not all that different from telling a shop owner who was robbed that maybe he should do something else instead.
dredmorbius 15y ago
Microsoft does benefit, greatly, from piracy of Windows. Gates has said so himself: http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/23137-how-piracy-benefits-microsoft http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/23137-how-pira... Gates has also, in the past, confirmed how important piracy is to Microsoft: "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software... Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
- learc83 15y ago
  I'm convinced Photoshop is intentionally easy to pirate. They make money from business customers, and everyone willing to pay, and because it's essentially free for people unwilling to pay, there isn't much room for a competitor.
  - dredmorbius 15y ago
    Look at Craigslist for another example. All listings are free. With the exception of job postings and agent housing ads in NYC. The exceptions provide enough revenue for the small (~40) staff of CL to keep things rolling. The free postings zero out revenues for anyone else looking to compete in the same space, establishing a large marketplace with strong network effects and an effective monopoly.

You say that like it's a problem. Look at it this way: Does Ubuntu or OS X suffer from being pirated? Not really. Windows needs to figure this out for themselves.

VMG 15y ago

It likely is a problem for all those people who pirate Windows

comicjk 15y ago

We certainly don't want all OSs confined to closed hardware like OS X. Ubuntu (and open source in general) works because of inverse-free-riders, "free helpers" we might call them. That seems to be a sustainable model, but it likely won't work for annoying grunt programming - note the poor driver support in many Linux distros. For some tasks, someone needs to be paid.

treeform 15y ago
A big couse in pour drivers support is that companies dont publish specs to their devices. If there was only one dominant free OS like linux, companies that make hardwire would want their devices to work with it and so will write drivers or at least publish full spec.
aklofas 15y ago
Windows doesn't write driver software either. It's up to the hardware companies to make their hardware compatible if they want to sell it. Windows just happens to have the largest market share. If Linux had even one tenth the share of windows, drivers wouldn't be an issue.
pilom 15y ago
I disagree that it is really sustainable on an industry wide scale. Who pays the salaries of the free helpers so that they have the free time to contribute?

grantheaslip 15y ago

So you’re saying that because people are stealing their software, Microsoft should throw away their business model? If people were stealing iPads from Apple stores, would you suggest Apple should “figure [that] out for themselves”?

tikhonj 15y ago
First of all, copying is completely different from stealing, but we've been over that before. Secondly, stores actually do deal with shoplifting--they euphemistically call it "inventory shrinkage" and just chalk it up as an expense. "Unauthorized" copying isn't even an expense!
- grantheaslip 15y ago
  Fair point — I was being a bit facetious — but the fact remains that if a critical enough mass of people steal/copy Windows, it’s no longer economically viable. Every user who hasn’t paid for it is being subsidized by those who have. Windows may not be the best example since it’s so massively profitable, and sells a lot to enterprise customers and OEMs who won’t pirate it. That said, I suspect the business case for producing high-budget, non-mass-market consumer content (say, HBO shows) is starting to tip. How many people pirate Game of Thrones for every one that pays for it? In the end, we live in a capitalist society — the people making software, movies, music, books, etc. have to get paid for the stuff be made.
  - v0cab 15y ago
    They don't have to make that stuff. They can try to find something else to do instead.
    - grantheaslip 15y ago
      If there was legitimately no demand for these products, then sure, they should move on and make something else instead. But there is a demand for them — it’s just that many of the people consuming it are stealing it. This is what laws are there for. Again, I know this analogy isn’t perfect, but what you’ve said is not all that different from telling a shop owner who was robbed that maybe he should do something else instead.

dredmorbius 15y ago

Microsoft does benefit, greatly, from piracy of Windows. Gates has said so himself: http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/23137-how-piracy-benefits-microsoft http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/23137-how-pira... Gates has also, in the past, confirmed how important piracy is to Microsoft: "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software... Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

learc83 15y ago
I'm convinced Photoshop is intentionally easy to pirate. They make money from business customers, and everyone willing to pay, and because it's essentially free for people unwilling to pay, there isn't much room for a competitor.
- dredmorbius 15y ago
  Look at Craigslist for another example. All listings are free. With the exception of job postings and agent housing ads in NYC. The exceptions provide enough revenue for the small (~40) staff of CL to keep things rolling. The free postings zero out revenues for anyone else looking to compete in the same space, establishing a large marketplace with strong network effects and an effective monopoly.