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> Cloudflare has pushed against public sentiment [..] to restrict censorship. Except when they booted sites off their network because Twitter users were upset.

> Cloudflare has pushed against public sentiment [..] to restrict censorship. Except when they booted sites off their network because Twitter users were upset..

deanCommie 4y ago
Upset over serious, credible, actionable, threats of violence against other people hosted on those sites.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Was it... I think you may want to research those events more
  - rose_ann_ 4y ago
    And I think you don't have the slightest idea what the commenter you're pretending to reply to, is actually talking about.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      pretty sure I am fully informed...
      - deanCommie 4y ago
        https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ > "the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before." > "Revolting content alone does not create an emergency situation that necessitates the action we are taking today." > "While we believe that in every other situation we have faced — including the Daily Stormer and 8chan — it would have been appropriate as an infrastructure provider for us to wait for legal process, in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."
        phpisthebest 4y ago
        Ok so we want to go down that path, where every single one of those statements by CloudFlare was proven to be wrong.... https://corinnacohn.substack.com/p/the-world-should-not-need-kiwi-farms?r=uglk&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web https://corinnacohn.substack.com/p/the-world-should-not-need... https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/why-keffals-really-took-down-kiwi https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/why-keffals-really-took... https://wahf.substack.com/p/the-kiwi-in-the-coalmine-part-i https://wahf.substack.com/p/the-kiwi-in-the-coalmine-part-i https://destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-internet https://destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-int... Just a start, and with out getting to all the later issue around the GoFundMe, and several other things... I am fully informed on the issue, and how CloudFlare caved to social pressure and refused to stand on principle, there was no "emergency situation"
  - Rimintil 4y ago
    This type of response has no value and should not be posted, here. If you wanted to _provide_ links to said information and be helpful or provide a factual counter-argument, that would be wonderful. It not only benefits the person you're replying to, but also the rest of the HN community. Otherwise, this type of response simply raises red flags of evasion and lack of knowledge.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      I did in another comment in this thread. Also this topic is already on the line so putting in too much content and information would run a foul of the political leanings and bias of a large part of rest of the HN community resulting in mass flagging of my postings...
    - byyll 4y ago
      I did, in another thread about Cloudflare and my comment got flagged so take that as you will.
maldev 4y ago
I personally don't trust any of my businesses to run on it after this, and have been advising business partners and people I advise to steer clear of it. I know it's not much, but it's been mid to high 6 figures in revenue i've had shifted elsewhere. Having a business possibly be crippled won't pass any sort of risk management, and clearly shows they don't rank highly on any sort of organizational maturity scale.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  Maybe you should instead advise your business partners not to host content that threatens the lives of specific individuals based solely on their identity group? Including coordinate doxxing, harassment, swatting, and threats of violence? It's nice that you have the option to take such a professional attitude that can advise companies in the abstract based on free speech absolutionism, but the details really matter. I know too many Americans genuinely believe that free speech absolutionism is the only way to prevent a descent into 1984 authoritarianism, but Canada and Europe seems to have found a way to restrict nazis and threats of violence against races and LGBTQ people and ending the "slippery slope" there.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Many Americans would disagree that they "ended the "slippery slope" there" or have anything close to free expression. Look at the Trucker protests during Covid, arresting people for harmless jokes on Twitter, or because a dog raised it paw..... Come On now. Neither Canada, nor Europe have free speech, while they may not be to 1984 authoritarianism yet, they are well well down that path.
    - deanCommie 4y ago
      > Trucker protests during Covid, Watch a video of the protest in Ottawa and come back to me and tell what you would have done if this was happening inside your city. > arresting people for harmless jokes on Twitter I'll give you that one - https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offens... The law is a mess. But ironically it's not because of a degradation of free speech, but rather because of legacy laws that haven't been caught up with the times. > because a dog raised it paw While I personally wouldn't have made a stink out of that one either, let's not pretend that's all it was. The man trained his dog to raise a paw in response to the command "Do you want to gas the Jews?" and then put it online. I realize it may be difficult for Americans to understand why the rest of the world takes such a zero-tolerance policy with fascism considering they are only 6 years removed from having elected a fascist president, but there are good reasons why the rest of the world takes a zero tolerance policy with Nazi speech.

> Cloudflare has pushed against public sentiment [..] to restrict censorship. Except when they booted sites off their network because Twitter users were upset..

deanCommie 4y ago

Upset over serious, credible, actionable, threats of violence against other people hosted on those sites.

phpisthebest 4y ago
Was it... I think you may want to research those events more
- rose_ann_ 4y ago
  And I think you don't have the slightest idea what the commenter you're pretending to reply to, is actually talking about.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    pretty sure I am fully informed...
    - deanCommie 4y ago
      https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ > "the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before." > "Revolting content alone does not create an emergency situation that necessitates the action we are taking today." > "While we believe that in every other situation we have faced — including the Daily Stormer and 8chan — it would have been appropriate as an infrastructure provider for us to wait for legal process, in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        Ok so we want to go down that path, where every single one of those statements by CloudFlare was proven to be wrong.... https://corinnacohn.substack.com/p/the-world-should-not-need-kiwi-farms?r=uglk&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web https://corinnacohn.substack.com/p/the-world-should-not-need... https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/why-keffals-really-took-down-kiwi https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/why-keffals-really-took... https://wahf.substack.com/p/the-kiwi-in-the-coalmine-part-i https://wahf.substack.com/p/the-kiwi-in-the-coalmine-part-i https://destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-internet https://destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-int... Just a start, and with out getting to all the later issue around the GoFundMe, and several other things... I am fully informed on the issue, and how CloudFlare caved to social pressure and refused to stand on principle, there was no "emergency situation"
- Rimintil 4y ago
  This type of response has no value and should not be posted, here. If you wanted to _provide_ links to said information and be helpful or provide a factual counter-argument, that would be wonderful. It not only benefits the person you're replying to, but also the rest of the HN community. Otherwise, this type of response simply raises red flags of evasion and lack of knowledge.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I did in another comment in this thread. Also this topic is already on the line so putting in too much content and information would run a foul of the political leanings and bias of a large part of rest of the HN community resulting in mass flagging of my postings...
  - byyll 4y ago
    I did, in another thread about Cloudflare and my comment got flagged so take that as you will.

maldev 4y ago

I personally don't trust any of my businesses to run on it after this, and have been advising business partners and people I advise to steer clear of it. I know it's not much, but it's been mid to high 6 figures in revenue i've had shifted elsewhere. Having a business possibly be crippled won't pass any sort of risk management, and clearly shows they don't rank highly on any sort of organizational maturity scale.

deanCommie 4y ago
Maybe you should instead advise your business partners not to host content that threatens the lives of specific individuals based solely on their identity group? Including coordinate doxxing, harassment, swatting, and threats of violence? It's nice that you have the option to take such a professional attitude that can advise companies in the abstract based on free speech absolutionism, but the details really matter. I know too many Americans genuinely believe that free speech absolutionism is the only way to prevent a descent into 1984 authoritarianism, but Canada and Europe seems to have found a way to restrict nazis and threats of violence against races and LGBTQ people and ending the "slippery slope" there.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Many Americans would disagree that they "ended the "slippery slope" there" or have anything close to free expression. Look at the Trucker protests during Covid, arresting people for harmless jokes on Twitter, or because a dog raised it paw..... Come On now. Neither Canada, nor Europe have free speech, while they may not be to 1984 authoritarianism yet, they are well well down that path.
  - deanCommie 4y ago
    > Trucker protests during Covid, Watch a video of the protest in Ottawa and come back to me and tell what you would have done if this was happening inside your city. > arresting people for harmless jokes on Twitter I'll give you that one - https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offens... The law is a mess. But ironically it's not because of a degradation of free speech, but rather because of legacy laws that haven't been caught up with the times. > because a dog raised it paw While I personally wouldn't have made a stink out of that one either, let's not pretend that's all it was. The man trained his dog to raise a paw in response to the command "Do you want to gas the Jews?" and then put it online. I realize it may be difficult for Americans to understand why the rest of the world takes such a zero-tolerance policy with fascism considering they are only 6 years removed from having elected a fascist president, but there are good reasons why the rest of the world takes a zero tolerance policy with Nazi speech.