5 ms·

There is only one point around the whole Oumuamua topic for me, that makes me a bit sad. Extraterrestrial or not is not it, but that we had no means to just fly

by sai_c 4y ago

There is only one point around the whole Oumuamua topic for me, that makes me a bit sad. Extraterrestrial or not is not it, but that we had no means to just fly there (with or without humans) and checkout what it is. Even worse, it seems no one in the scientific community (please correct me if I'm wrong) stepped up and said "We need to change this!". And it seems we will not have those means in the coming years/decades. Honestly, if we can't do this in our own neighbourhood, because we simply lack the will power and consensus to do it, it says a lot about the future of space exploration.

colordrops 4y ago
Avi Loeb stepped up and he's getting shit on left and right for it, despite very strong credentials.
- a2800276 4y ago
  On the other hand, he's likely the only astrophysicist apart from Neil Degrasse Tyson any non astrophysicist has ever heard of.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    Hawking? Einstein?
    - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
      Those are not astrophysicists but theoretical physicists?
      - a2800276 4y ago
        They are also no longer among us. Sorry, should have qualified "living"
      - adastra22 4y ago
        I’m not sure that is a real distinction. Astrophysics is a subfield of physics, and these men were physicists who dealt cosmology.
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  If you put out an extraordinary claim on extraordinarily weak evidence, that is usually what happens.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    What's weak about the evidence?
a2800276 4y ago
Not sure why this would make you sad. There are an arbitrary number of events in the universe that could warrant attention. There's no possible way we could create means to "fly" to all of them. Trying to create these means is futile, unless you arbitrarily pick "intercept big space sausage floating through the solar system". Neglecting the obvious question of priorities considering all the shit we could be fixing on earth, better observatories would be much more useful than spaceships to take Bruce Willis out to inspect stuff. And there is a lot of funding going towards capabilities in that direction.
- avz 4y ago
  It seems to me that "the universe" is not an appropriate term for our close planetary neighborhood. There is a difference between an interstellar object passing within 85 times the distance to the Moon (so closer than Mars at closest approach to Earth) and say a supernova thousands or millions of light years away (and hence thousands or millions of years ago). I don't know where the universe begins, but I'd say Low Earth Orbit and the Moon don't qualify while Proxima Centauri does. For reference: Distance from ground to space: ~100 km Distance from California to Australia: ~12,000 km Distance to the Moon: ~400,000 km Distance to 'Oumuamua's closest approach: ~33,000,000 km Distance to Mars at closest approach: ~55,000,000 km Distance to the Sun: ~150,000,000 km Distance to Neptune: ~4,500,000,000 km Current distance to 'Oumuamua ~5,000,000,000 km Distance to Sedna: ~13,000,000,000 km Distance to Proxima Centauri: ~40,000,000,000,000 km
  - a2800276 4y ago
    s/universe/solar system/ There are still plenty of other possibile curiosities than interstellar rocks in closer proximity than Proxima Centauri. Each would require highly specialized instruments. Not sure what the window of opportunity was for O6a, but it's doubtful that it would have been possible to prepare a mission in that timeframe. It follows that such "spaceships" would need to be prepared ahead of time and maintained indefinitely for an event which may not occur again for centuries ...
ianai 4y ago
From interviews of scientists in places like John Michael Godier’s YouTube and similar, I do sense scientists see the value and some demand to be able to investigate such things. I think one recent interviewee even mentioned having drawn up plans for building up some readiness and a project to do a fly by of Oumuamua. Further, rocket launches seem to be an emerging market in that the price to launch comes down as more capability ramps up. So it’s possible the market might answer this before government.
bagels 4y ago
It's a really challenging goal. It'd take probably more delta-v than any other spacecraft launched. Oumuamua orbit wasn't characterized until after it was already heading away from the solar system, which makes the requirements even higher and the launch window pretty small. Budgets have to be allocated and prioritized who will pay for it and prioritize it ahead of other space missions? Finding a scientist who would love to have this is a lot easier than finding someone to fund and build this. It'd probably require a rocket with more detla-v than any other ever made to be put on standby for years, ready to launch within a few days.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  And you're not going to be doing a multi-planet flyby gravity assist trajectory, you're going to have to do it direct, which makes the delta-V budget crazy high. It probably looks something like having a fueled up Saturn V in LEO with the probe on it (particularly for a lander rendezvous, never mind the insanity of doing sample return) just waiting to go (and nevermind boiloff).
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Well https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0094576522003782?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00945... actually proposes a multiplanet flyby (Venus Earth Earth) followed by an Oberth burn at Jupiter. Would need to launch in 2028 on SLS and has a 15.8 km/s ∆v budget and flyby in 2054. Unfortunately I can't see the full text (sci-hub still down) so I don't know what the details are of the powered flyby of Jupiter or the relative velocity when they intersect.
    - bagels 4y ago
      Thanks for sharing this! Much lower dv budget if you can do gravity assists, but you have the obvious downside of a 30 year mission! High risk of failure. It has to compete against landing on Titan, landing on Venus, etc.
      - 4y ago
adastra22 4y ago
We absolutely have the capability to send a flyby mission to visit 'Oumuamua. We just don't have the money or inclination to do so, given other priorities.
russdill 4y ago
There will be plenty of other interstellar objects that pass through our solar system. Oumuamua wasn't some special once in a lifetime event, it's just we are just getting the capability online to see these objects. We will see these objects earlier and earlier, we will see a lot more of them, and in all likelyhood future missions will intercept such objects. Maybe even sample return someday.
- euroderf 4y ago
  So what is the chance that one will be made of antimatter ? Somewhere close to nil ?
  - russdill 4y ago
    It would not make it very far as it passes though interstellar gas that is not antimatter.
DeWilde 4y ago
Maybe better not to do it, could be a trap that provokes a dark forrest strike.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
antonvs 4y ago
Science fiction has skewed people’s perspective of what’s possible or practically achievable in space travel. The issue is not willpower and consensus, but what’s economically and physically possible. You’re right, though, that this says a lot about the future of space travel. We’re unlikely to have successful colonies on other planets within the next century or so, and sending live humans to other star systems is even less likely.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Kerbal Space Program should be compulsory to all if for no other reason than to teach how moving around in space /actually/ works. Most of the spaceflying we see in games and on TV would never actually work because that's not how physics work.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    Most people don't know how a pressure cooker, a microwave or a radio work, we have a lot of much more important things to teach before teaching space travel
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
T-A 4y ago
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/european-comet-interceptor-could-visit-an-interstellar-object/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/european-comet-in...

by sai_c 4y ago

colordrops 4y ago

Avi Loeb stepped up and he's getting shit on left and right for it, despite very strong credentials.

a2800276 4y ago
On the other hand, he's likely the only astrophysicist apart from Neil Degrasse Tyson any non astrophysicist has ever heard of.
- adastra22 4y ago
  Hawking? Einstein?
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    Those are not astrophysicists but theoretical physicists?
    - a2800276 4y ago
      They are also no longer among us. Sorry, should have qualified "living"
    - adastra22 4y ago
      I’m not sure that is a real distinction. Astrophysics is a subfield of physics, and these men were physicists who dealt cosmology.
bayesian_horse 4y ago
If you put out an extraordinary claim on extraordinarily weak evidence, that is usually what happens.
- colordrops 4y ago
  What's weak about the evidence?

a2800276 4y ago

Not sure why this would make you sad. There are an arbitrary number of events in the universe that could warrant attention. There's no possible way we could create means to "fly" to all of them. Trying to create these means is futile, unless you arbitrarily pick "intercept big space sausage floating through the solar system". Neglecting the obvious question of priorities considering all the shit we could be fixing on earth, better observatories would be much more useful than spaceships to take Bruce Willis out to inspect stuff. And there is a lot of funding going towards capabilities in that direction.

avz 4y ago
It seems to me that "the universe" is not an appropriate term for our close planetary neighborhood. There is a difference between an interstellar object passing within 85 times the distance to the Moon (so closer than Mars at closest approach to Earth) and say a supernova thousands or millions of light years away (and hence thousands or millions of years ago). I don't know where the universe begins, but I'd say Low Earth Orbit and the Moon don't qualify while Proxima Centauri does. For reference: Distance from ground to space: ~100 km Distance from California to Australia: ~12,000 km Distance to the Moon: ~400,000 km Distance to 'Oumuamua's closest approach: ~33,000,000 km Distance to Mars at closest approach: ~55,000,000 km Distance to the Sun: ~150,000,000 km Distance to Neptune: ~4,500,000,000 km Current distance to 'Oumuamua ~5,000,000,000 km Distance to Sedna: ~13,000,000,000 km Distance to Proxima Centauri: ~40,000,000,000,000 km
- a2800276 4y ago
  s/universe/solar system/ There are still plenty of other possibile curiosities than interstellar rocks in closer proximity than Proxima Centauri. Each would require highly specialized instruments. Not sure what the window of opportunity was for O6a, but it's doubtful that it would have been possible to prepare a mission in that timeframe. It follows that such "spaceships" would need to be prepared ahead of time and maintained indefinitely for an event which may not occur again for centuries ...

ianai 4y ago

From interviews of scientists in places like John Michael Godier’s YouTube and similar, I do sense scientists see the value and some demand to be able to investigate such things. I think one recent interviewee even mentioned having drawn up plans for building up some readiness and a project to do a fly by of Oumuamua. Further, rocket launches seem to be an emerging market in that the price to launch comes down as more capability ramps up. So it’s possible the market might answer this before government.

bagels 4y ago

It's a really challenging goal. It'd take probably more delta-v than any other spacecraft launched. Oumuamua orbit wasn't characterized until after it was already heading away from the solar system, which makes the requirements even higher and the launch window pretty small. Budgets have to be allocated and prioritized who will pay for it and prioritize it ahead of other space missions? Finding a scientist who would love to have this is a lot easier than finding someone to fund and build this. It'd probably require a rocket with more detla-v than any other ever made to be put on standby for years, ready to launch within a few days.

lamontcg 4y ago
And you're not going to be doing a multi-planet flyby gravity assist trajectory, you're going to have to do it direct, which makes the delta-V budget crazy high. It probably looks something like having a fueled up Saturn V in LEO with the probe on it (particularly for a lander rendezvous, never mind the insanity of doing sample return) just waiting to go (and nevermind boiloff).
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Well https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0094576522003782?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00945... actually proposes a multiplanet flyby (Venus Earth Earth) followed by an Oberth burn at Jupiter. Would need to launch in 2028 on SLS and has a 15.8 km/s ∆v budget and flyby in 2054. Unfortunately I can't see the full text (sci-hub still down) so I don't know what the details are of the powered flyby of Jupiter or the relative velocity when they intersect.
  - bagels 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing this! Much lower dv budget if you can do gravity assists, but you have the obvious downside of a 30 year mission! High risk of failure. It has to compete against landing on Titan, landing on Venus, etc.
    - 4y ago

adastra22 4y ago

We absolutely have the capability to send a flyby mission to visit 'Oumuamua. We just don't have the money or inclination to do so, given other priorities.

russdill 4y ago

There will be plenty of other interstellar objects that pass through our solar system. Oumuamua wasn't some special once in a lifetime event, it's just we are just getting the capability online to see these objects. We will see these objects earlier and earlier, we will see a lot more of them, and in all likelyhood future missions will intercept such objects. Maybe even sample return someday.

euroderf 4y ago
So what is the chance that one will be made of antimatter ? Somewhere close to nil ?
- russdill 4y ago
  It would not make it very far as it passes though interstellar gas that is not antimatter.

DeWilde 4y ago

Maybe better not to do it, could be a trap that provokes a dark forrest strike.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

antonvs 4y ago

Science fiction has skewed people’s perspective of what’s possible or practically achievable in space travel. The issue is not willpower and consensus, but what’s economically and physically possible. You’re right, though, that this says a lot about the future of space travel. We’re unlikely to have successful colonies on other planets within the next century or so, and sending live humans to other star systems is even less likely.

Dalewyn 4y ago
Kerbal Space Program should be compulsory to all if for no other reason than to teach how moving around in space /actually/ works. Most of the spaceflying we see in games and on TV would never actually work because that's not how physics work.
- lm28469 4y ago
  Most people don't know how a pressure cooker, a microwave or a radio work, we have a lot of much more important things to teach before teaching space travel

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

T-A 4y ago

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/european-comet-interceptor-could-visit-an-interstellar-object/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/european-comet-in...