4 ms·

I have someone on my team who took 12 weeks PTO last year, yet still created outsized value for the company. I have someone who we lured to the team by offerin

by mgdev 4y ago

I have someone on my team who took 12 weeks PTO last year, yet still created outsized value for the company. I have someone who we lured to the team by offering 4 weeks off in the first 2 months of his employment so he could do a pre-planned trip. Didn't require any special approvals because it's just an SOP. I have someone who regularly takes 2-3 days off every month, because he works in concentrated bursts of energy, then needs to decompress. And of course, I have one person who NEVER takes time off, because they always have so much to do and are afraid to let a ball drop. This leads to overwhelm, and a ball drops anyhow. So I need to force them to take time off. As with all things, it's not just the mechanism, but the environment that mechanism exists within. It needs to be deployed alongside strong accountability mechanisms - planning, goaling, 1:1s, team health assessments, and performance reviews - otherwise it can be abused, or it can be hard to say 'no' to a request, or it can be hard to know when people aren't taking time they need. But if you've done that, it's an incredible tool.

andrewljohnson 4y ago
Got it… my vacation allowance depends on my manager’s whims and quarterly peer reviews. Sounds perfect.
- kube-system 4y ago
  PTO requests can be denied by your manager at companies with limited PTO as well.
  - stcroixx 4y ago
    But you'll still be paid for those days when you leave that job.
    - Volundr 4y ago
      Depends on your state
    - kube-system 4y ago
      If you live in one of the 5 states that require it, or you have an employer generous enough to voluntarily give it to you.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    Yes, but you have more recourse when it's put into writing how much PTO you're entitled to per the employee manual. The unlimited PTO? Completely at the whim of your manager with no recourse whatsoever.
- david38 4y ago
  Got it. You intentionally misinterpret what is said to suit your agenda. Sounds perfect.
- hirako2000 4y ago
  Your manager also depends on your whims. And not only yours. Managers are as accountable as their staff, if not more. Managers eject from the seat even quicker and for problems oftentimes in no ways caused by them. They have to deal with people only honouring their own wishes, with policies that would never be a fit. They came up with their own: take all the time you want. All the way you want. I will make sure to fire you if you aren't providing value rather than chase your hours and time taken off. Note: I'm not a manager. will never be one. I simply have a bit of compassion for their job: they are tasked to make other people get the work done.
morbia 4y ago
> I have someone on my team who took 12 weeks PTO last year, yet still created outsized value for the company. Hypothetically, what if this individual was taking 12 weeks PTO and were underperforming? Would your business encourage them to take less leave next year to perform better? How much leave would be 'too much' for them to get back on track? The thing is all of that requires a lot of trust in both directions, as you pretty much said. If I am a candidate for your company, how do I know that trust is there? Recently I interviewed for a company which had unlimited PTO. They marketted this to me as some fantastic perk, and then when I got the contract they had a clause which said that they ask people to only take 'reasonable' amounts of time off. I asked them to define what is 'reasonable' and they could not. At that point, all of my red flags were waving and I walked away.
- altairprime 4y ago
  If they could get back on track without changing their leave schedule, then the performance plan was well-written.
Jugurtha 4y ago
Do you not have someone who takes a week off to plow through "two months worth of issues/backlog" because they are so productive during vacation? :D
- mgdev 4y ago
  I’m that person. :P
  - Jugurtha 4y ago
    I figured. Ask me how I know.
bb88 4y ago
Things your manager may not know: 1. How to actually manage people. Snarky I admit, but in 2023 this is a true statement for a lot of people. The point is that good tools in the hand of bad managers can be used for oppressive behavior and not as a means of reward. This is one of them.

by mgdev 4y ago

andrewljohnson 4y ago

Got it… my vacation allowance depends on my manager’s whims and quarterly peer reviews. Sounds perfect.

kube-system 4y ago
PTO requests can be denied by your manager at companies with limited PTO as well.
- stcroixx 4y ago
  But you'll still be paid for those days when you leave that job.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    Depends on your state
  - kube-system 4y ago
    If you live in one of the 5 states that require it, or you have an employer generous enough to voluntarily give it to you.
- taylodl 4y ago
  Yes, but you have more recourse when it's put into writing how much PTO you're entitled to per the employee manual. The unlimited PTO? Completely at the whim of your manager with no recourse whatsoever.
david38 4y ago
Got it. You intentionally misinterpret what is said to suit your agenda. Sounds perfect.
hirako2000 4y ago
Your manager also depends on your whims. And not only yours. Managers are as accountable as their staff, if not more. Managers eject from the seat even quicker and for problems oftentimes in no ways caused by them. They have to deal with people only honouring their own wishes, with policies that would never be a fit. They came up with their own: take all the time you want. All the way you want. I will make sure to fire you if you aren't providing value rather than chase your hours and time taken off. Note: I'm not a manager. will never be one. I simply have a bit of compassion for their job: they are tasked to make other people get the work done.

morbia 4y ago

> I have someone on my team who took 12 weeks PTO last year, yet still created outsized value for the company. Hypothetically, what if this individual was taking 12 weeks PTO and were underperforming? Would your business encourage them to take less leave next year to perform better? How much leave would be 'too much' for them to get back on track? The thing is all of that requires a lot of trust in both directions, as you pretty much said. If I am a candidate for your company, how do I know that trust is there? Recently I interviewed for a company which had unlimited PTO. They marketted this to me as some fantastic perk, and then when I got the contract they had a clause which said that they ask people to only take 'reasonable' amounts of time off. I asked them to define what is 'reasonable' and they could not. At that point, all of my red flags were waving and I walked away.

altairprime 4y ago
If they could get back on track without changing their leave schedule, then the performance plan was well-written.

Jugurtha 4y ago

Do you not have someone who takes a week off to plow through "two months worth of issues/backlog" because they are so productive during vacation? :D

mgdev 4y ago
I’m that person. :P
- Jugurtha 4y ago
  I figured. Ask me how I know.

bb88 4y ago

Things your manager may not know: 1. How to actually manage people. Snarky I admit, but in 2023 this is a true statement for a lot of people. The point is that good tools in the hand of bad managers can be used for oppressive behavior and not as a means of reward. This is one of them.