5 ms·

The debate should be settled now. In terms of trophies, Messi is the GOAT. In terms of statistics (goals, assists, dribbles), Messi is the GOAT. In terms of sty

The debate should be settled now. In terms of trophies, Messi is the GOAT. In terms of statistics (goals, assists, dribbles), Messi is the GOAT. In terms of style of play, Messi is the GOAT. Pele, Maradona, and Cristiano are not on his level.

ardit33 4y ago
lol what. Pele is 3 times WC winner my dude. Messi is great, but not yet at Pele's level.
- SSJPython 4y ago
  Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.
  - rafaelero 4y ago
    > But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce Looks like he didn't have to since he still won 3 world cups.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
    - fernandotakai 4y ago
      another datapoint regarding pelé: >After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    LOL. At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer. Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did. EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s. Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete. Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....
    - fosk 4y ago
      Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day. More here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusconi-owner-reign-shaped-modern-football-italy-serie-a-champions-league-money https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusc...
    - yowzadave 4y ago
      > Look at who won the world cups! Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.
  - gspetr 4y ago
    Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that." https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.com/news/what-they-said-about-pele-1321917 https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.... Alfredo Di Stéfano: "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano. Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups. http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html
29athrowaway 4y ago
Mbappe is.
- usaphp 4y ago
  he was invisible for 90% of the game, aside from the second goal, he hasn't done much, both penalties were terrible mistakes by Argentina defense.
  - elforce002 4y ago
    This. 2 penalties awarded not to him but his teammates. One amazing goal. Still an excellent player nowhere near his prime years. We'll definitely see him for the next 3 WC for sure.
    - sidibe 4y ago
      Only one penalty was won by a teammate. For the second one he blasted a shot on target that the defender handled. Messi took 4 PKs in the tournament that were won by teammates
      - usaphp 4y ago
        What do Messi's penalties have to do with OP comment?
- fernandotakai 4y ago
  mbappe is amazing, don't get me wrong. but we are talking about the "greatest of all time" -- mbappe needs to get at least 3 "best player of the year" to get close to the kinds of messi and cristiano ronaldo and that's while not even talking about older players like maradona, pelé and garrincha.
nishs 4y ago
This is a poorly informed comment. The same commenter also calls both Messi and Maradona dribbling playmaking forwards. Some of their other comments when talking about Messi say, "If you come at the King, you best not miss."
paganel 4y ago
I'm really glad that Messi got to win his World Cup but you can't really compare players from very, very different eras. I grew up in the '80s and '90s under Diego's spell, and for that I would always see him as the greatest player ever, no matter what will happen next, but Maradona was playing a different game than what was played during Pele's time, and Messi is playing a different game compared to what used to be played in the '80s and '90s. But, yeah, in the great scheme of things this would be the magic trio for me: Pele, Maradona, Messi, in chronological order, that is.

ardit33 4y ago

lol what. Pele is 3 times WC winner my dude. Messi is great, but not yet at Pele's level.

SSJPython 4y ago
Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.
- rafaelero 4y ago
  > But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce Looks like he didn't have to since he still won 3 world cups.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
  - fernandotakai 4y ago
    another datapoint regarding pelé: >After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  LOL. At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer. Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did. EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s. Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete. Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....
  - fosk 4y ago
    Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day. More here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusconi-owner-reign-shaped-modern-football-italy-serie-a-champions-league-money https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusc...
  - yowzadave 4y ago
    > Look at who won the world cups! Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.
- gspetr 4y ago
  Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that." https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.com/news/what-they-said-about-pele-1321917 https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.... Alfredo Di Stéfano: "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano. Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups. http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html

29athrowaway 4y ago

Mbappe is.

usaphp 4y ago
he was invisible for 90% of the game, aside from the second goal, he hasn't done much, both penalties were terrible mistakes by Argentina defense.
- elforce002 4y ago
  This. 2 penalties awarded not to him but his teammates. One amazing goal. Still an excellent player nowhere near his prime years. We'll definitely see him for the next 3 WC for sure.
  - sidibe 4y ago
    Only one penalty was won by a teammate. For the second one he blasted a shot on target that the defender handled. Messi took 4 PKs in the tournament that were won by teammates
    - usaphp 4y ago
      What do Messi's penalties have to do with OP comment?
fernandotakai 4y ago
mbappe is amazing, don't get me wrong. but we are talking about the "greatest of all time" -- mbappe needs to get at least 3 "best player of the year" to get close to the kinds of messi and cristiano ronaldo and that's while not even talking about older players like maradona, pelé and garrincha.

nishs 4y ago

This is a poorly informed comment. The same commenter also calls both Messi and Maradona dribbling playmaking forwards. Some of their other comments when talking about Messi say, "If you come at the King, you best not miss."

paganel 4y ago

I'm really glad that Messi got to win his World Cup but you can't really compare players from very, very different eras. I grew up in the '80s and '90s under Diego's spell, and for that I would always see him as the greatest player ever, no matter what will happen next, but Maradona was playing a different game than what was played during Pele's time, and Messi is playing a different game compared to what used to be played in the '80s and '90s. But, yeah, in the great scheme of things this would be the magic trio for me: Pele, Maradona, Messi, in chronological order, that is.