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There is way less team loyalty. Teams are not geographical, so no physical attachment. Teams change players too much for me to become a fan and buy their merch.

by mb22 4y ago

Bilal_io 4y ago
Maybe we will see national eSports teams if the fan base blows up over the years. But as for the existing teams, they're more like soccer clubs, and shouldn't be restricted by region, it allows money to be invested to bring in the best players, which is a good incentive for players to shine.
- jameshart 4y ago
  Soccer clubs aren’t regional?
  - smcl 4y ago
    I think they mean that if you are, say, Real Madrid you can sign a player who was born in Sevilla, Brazil or Turkey or wherever.
    - jameshart 4y ago
      Okay, makes sense. Doesn’t seem to restrict the ability of soccer clubs to build fanatical fanbases though
      - smcl 4y ago
        True but remember most of these teams have existed for a long time before it became possible for fans to support or follow teams abroad via TV and internet. So teams in smaller markets (eg Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden) have had the chance to build a local support base without necessarily “competing” for their loyalty with those in bigger markets (eg England, Germany, Spain, Italy). Note that I’ve put “competing” in quotes because I’m talking about fanbases and therefore money to build and develop their teams. Interestingly in the past when they did compete on the field things were much more equal. Before the explosion of TV money thumbed the scales in favour of the bigger players, it wasn’t such a huge shock for, say[0], Dundee United to beat Barcelona or IFK Gothenburg to beat Internazionale that it would today. [0] in fact both of these results happened, in the semifinals of the 1986/87 European Cup
      - Bilal_io 4y ago
        I cannot speak for other eSports, but I follow Rocket League and it has this rules which gives players the power over the clubs. If two players out of three decide to stick together and either move to another team or form a new Org, they can take their ranking and qualifications with them. So at least for this specific esport it's hard to build loyalty around an Org and it's formed around the players instead.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Regional isn't so much about the players. But that they play every week or every other weak in same stadium with same core group of fans easily being present. And on smaller clubs at least in Europe there is clear pipeline for juniors to the main team players. Thus bulk of the players can be locals.
Ninjinka 4y ago
There are some geographical teams, my brother-in-law loves the Dallas Fuel, but yeah they aren't all.
efsavage 4y ago
Agreed, it seems odd to be a fan of a team when they aren't "your" team, as in you can go and actually see them on a regular basis. Racing and golf are examples of successful sports that don't have geographic ties, and they're both mostly individual-driven. Racing has teams, but nobody really cares about them.
- fernandopj 4y ago
  > Racing has teams, but nobody really cares about them Italians and Ferrari would strongly disagree with you
  - Godel_unicode 4y ago
    Yeah, people not caring about the teams is really just applicable to NASCAR in my experience.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    On the one hand, yeah. On the other, I know many Germans became Ferrari fans while they had Michael Schumacher.
- jameshart 4y ago
  I’m assuming by ‘racing’ you mean motor racing. ‘Nobody’ cares about racing teams? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifosi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifosi
nordsieck 4y ago
> Teams are not geographical Some teams are geographical. For example: Overwatch league. > There is way less team loyalty. My only real experience is with Dota. There is a lot of nationalist sentiment in tournaments, but you're right - most people follow players, not teams. In Dota, in particular, Valve has tried to make changes to encourage team stability, but the fundamental problem is that pay is so heavily stacked towards winning a few top tier tournaments per year, that people become very mercenary. I think the big challenge is that it really doesn't cost very much money to run an esports tournament. There is no need for an expensive stadium (except to sell tickets to fans). Basically anyone can create the new premiere tournament by just paying a bit of money to organize the thing and have a prize pool bigger than the current biggest prize pool. This really cuts into the power that a franchise model could potentially have - they'd have much less power to control the sport in the way that the NBA controls basketball or the NFL controls football.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  > In Dota, in particular, Valve has tried to make changes to encourage team stability, but the fundamental problem is that pay is so heavily stacked towards winning a few top tier tournaments per year, that people become very mercenary. And ironically, Valve is the organization that created this problem.
- sophrocyne 4y ago
  Similarly, my only real experience following is Dota - I blame my teenage years in War3 mods with that fascination. Aside from the payout & incentive structure for players, the game is very much dependent on aligning player skillsets, heroes in the meta, and player attitudes/communication styles -- So much so, that some teams thrive some years, and completely disintegrate the next. Plenty of examples of teams feeling they're being brought down by 'those one/two players', while they keep the "streaming stars" for the player fan base.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  > Some teams are geographical. For example: Overwatch league. Haven't checked the latest status, but I understood before that didn't really work out.

There is way less team loyalty. Teams are not geographical, so no physical attachment. Teams change players too much for me to become a fan and buy their merch.

by mb22 4y ago

There is way less team loyalty. Teams are not geographical, so no physical attachment. Teams change players too much for me to become a fan and buy their merch.

Bilal_io 4y ago

Maybe we will see national eSports teams if the fan base blows up over the years. But as for the existing teams, they're more like soccer clubs, and shouldn't be restricted by region, it allows money to be invested to bring in the best players, which is a good incentive for players to shine.

jameshart 4y ago
Soccer clubs aren’t regional?
- smcl 4y ago
  I think they mean that if you are, say, Real Madrid you can sign a player who was born in Sevilla, Brazil or Turkey or wherever.
  - jameshart 4y ago
    Okay, makes sense. Doesn’t seem to restrict the ability of soccer clubs to build fanatical fanbases though
    - smcl 4y ago
      True but remember most of these teams have existed for a long time before it became possible for fans to support or follow teams abroad via TV and internet. So teams in smaller markets (eg Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden) have had the chance to build a local support base without necessarily “competing” for their loyalty with those in bigger markets (eg England, Germany, Spain, Italy). Note that I’ve put “competing” in quotes because I’m talking about fanbases and therefore money to build and develop their teams. Interestingly in the past when they did compete on the field things were much more equal. Before the explosion of TV money thumbed the scales in favour of the bigger players, it wasn’t such a huge shock for, say[0], Dundee United to beat Barcelona or IFK Gothenburg to beat Internazionale that it would today. [0] in fact both of these results happened, in the semifinals of the 1986/87 European Cup
    - Bilal_io 4y ago
      I cannot speak for other eSports, but I follow Rocket League and it has this rules which gives players the power over the clubs. If two players out of three decide to stick together and either move to another team or form a new Org, they can take their ranking and qualifications with them. So at least for this specific esport it's hard to build loyalty around an Org and it's formed around the players instead.
Ekaros 4y ago
Regional isn't so much about the players. But that they play every week or every other weak in same stadium with same core group of fans easily being present. And on smaller clubs at least in Europe there is clear pipeline for juniors to the main team players. Thus bulk of the players can be locals.

Ninjinka 4y ago

There are some geographical teams, my brother-in-law loves the Dallas Fuel, but yeah they aren't all.

efsavage 4y ago

Agreed, it seems odd to be a fan of a team when they aren't "your" team, as in you can go and actually see them on a regular basis. Racing and golf are examples of successful sports that don't have geographic ties, and they're both mostly individual-driven. Racing has teams, but nobody really cares about them.

fernandopj 4y ago
> Racing has teams, but nobody really cares about them Italians and Ferrari would strongly disagree with you
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  Yeah, people not caring about the teams is really just applicable to NASCAR in my experience.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  On the one hand, yeah. On the other, I know many Germans became Ferrari fans while they had Michael Schumacher.
jameshart 4y ago
I’m assuming by ‘racing’ you mean motor racing. ‘Nobody’ cares about racing teams? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifosi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifosi

nordsieck 4y ago

> Teams are not geographical Some teams are geographical. For example: Overwatch league. > There is way less team loyalty. My only real experience is with Dota. There is a lot of nationalist sentiment in tournaments, but you're right - most people follow players, not teams. In Dota, in particular, Valve has tried to make changes to encourage team stability, but the fundamental problem is that pay is so heavily stacked towards winning a few top tier tournaments per year, that people become very mercenary. I think the big challenge is that it really doesn't cost very much money to run an esports tournament. There is no need for an expensive stadium (except to sell tickets to fans). Basically anyone can create the new premiere tournament by just paying a bit of money to organize the thing and have a prize pool bigger than the current biggest prize pool. This really cuts into the power that a franchise model could potentially have - they'd have much less power to control the sport in the way that the NBA controls basketball or the NFL controls football.

nerdponx 4y ago
> In Dota, in particular, Valve has tried to make changes to encourage team stability, but the fundamental problem is that pay is so heavily stacked towards winning a few top tier tournaments per year, that people become very mercenary. And ironically, Valve is the organization that created this problem.
sophrocyne 4y ago
Similarly, my only real experience following is Dota - I blame my teenage years in War3 mods with that fascination. Aside from the payout & incentive structure for players, the game is very much dependent on aligning player skillsets, heroes in the meta, and player attitudes/communication styles -- So much so, that some teams thrive some years, and completely disintegrate the next. Plenty of examples of teams feeling they're being brought down by 'those one/two players', while they keep the "streaming stars" for the player fan base.
Ekaros 4y ago
> Some teams are geographical. For example: Overwatch league. Haven't checked the latest status, but I understood before that didn't really work out.