7 ms·

Disclaimer: I am transgender and i have done actual research on transgenderism a couple years back. I have seen this firsthand on some acquaintances. Social me

Disclaimer: I am transgender and i have done actual research on transgenderism a couple years back. I have seen this firsthand on some acquaintances. Social media has a massive influence on people and there are some persons specifically that have a weaker sense of identity (usually associated with poor development or some mental disorder like schizophrenia, STPD, or BPD), and those persons can be influenced to the point of actually, legit molding their own identity by their own media consumption. This consumption in most people only plants seeds that will lead to questioning or trying stuff, but won't have a long-lasting impact on their core identity. So for most people this kind of exposition will be something either transitory or will just provide awareness. People grow out of it and it actually it's "just a phase" for many. So yes people can learn to have a new identity if they don't have a strong core identity formed yet or if it is weak or broken enough. OTOH, i am unsure what do you mean by a statistical over-representation of GD. There are no bounds set for deviation of the norm for the general population (i.e. normalized rate of growth of % of population that is transgender is not an outlier vs the rate of growth of other emergent behaviors afforded by greater overall inclusion and reduction of discrimination). The places where it is statistically over-represented, like on people within the Autism Spectrum, are under investigation. In any case the risks of social media brainwashing are not restricted to stuff like disorders but go way beyond and i think the solution to this stuff is, like for many other things, more education and awareness of risks, tradeoffs, what is gender, what is identity, and how they work both intrinsically and within the bounds of social interactions.

class4behavior 4y ago
Parent might be falsely inferring an over-representation of GD from the statistical discrepancy between younger and older age groups of those who identify as LGTBQ+.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  IIRC, research also shows that those who identify as trans in middle age are much more likely to be happy when they do choose to transition, compared to the younger folks.
  - class4behavior 4y ago
    Is there any statistical significance to that. Have the emotional baggage and social complexity younger people are dealing with and the share of middle aged people who did or could not transition been accounted for?
  - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
    I don't see anything to support this in the literature. The overwhelming majority (94-98%) of youth who transition maintain their gender identity many years later as adults. [1][2] It's hard to imagine they would continue treatment if it was making them miserable. [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-kids-tend-to-maintain-their-identities-as-they-grow-up-study-suggests https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-kids-tend-to... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22)00254-1/fulltext#%20 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4...
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      AIUI, another user ITT has mentioned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33883438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33883438 that this is merely statistics of how many transitioners formally pursue detransition, and that the numbers of those who practically desist from treatment are a lot higher than that.
      - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
        The number of individuals failing to follow up on a study or even treatment for any disease at the same medical office is high, for example it's approximately 50% for _cancer_. [1] You're welcome to extrapolate to your own taste, but it's still simply an unknown -- unlike the people you _do_ have data for. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028642/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028642/
        zozbot234 4y ago
        But the whole question is why people are desisting from treatment that's supposed to help them reaffirm their gender. Everyone knows that cancer treatment has very uncomfortable side effects; it's not surprising that people might neglect that. Gender treatment is literally supposed to make you feel good, by treating disphoria.
the_third_wave 4y ago
> OTOH, i am unsure what do you mean by a statistical over-representation of GD. This is quite clear to me and I do not think gender dysphoria - which is a DSM-5 diagnosis [1] - is the correct term to use. Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. This did not use to be so but that does not mean similar phenomena did not occur, they just did not get a diagnosis attached to them. It is highly probable (and feed for a dissertation if there is a university which would accept such a politically charged project) that the same character types who now "self-identify as 'trans'" were those who would style themselves as "goth" or "emo" or (in the late 80's and 90's) "metrosexual" or any other androgynous style. The difference is that these earlier style figures did not come with a diagnosis nor were they adopted by any mainstream political movement and as such were taken less seriously. You could be a goth just like you could be a metalhead or a prep and be part of your in-crowd by just wearing the right clothes (and, for some crowds, make-up) and listening to the right bands. It was accepted as a way for children and young adults to "belong" without coming with much baggage. [1] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  > Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. I don't see how you could usefully extrapolate a "real" baseline rate based on what prior generations did. Atypical sexual/gender identities have been taboo for almost the entirety of human civilization, and only as these taboos are now being lifted are people able to express these traits without fear of horrific repercussions.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    The current wave of "self-identification" was markedly absent in the wake of the '68 revolts and the ensuing "free love generation" which casts doubt upon your thesis. It is far more likely that these current "self-identification" trends are emergent properties of the availability of direct one-to-many communications media - social media and the like - which make it possible for these identity groups to emerge and grow rapidly.

class4behavior 4y ago

Parent might be falsely inferring an over-representation of GD from the statistical discrepancy between younger and older age groups of those who identify as LGTBQ+.

zozbot234 4y ago
IIRC, research also shows that those who identify as trans in middle age are much more likely to be happy when they do choose to transition, compared to the younger folks.
- class4behavior 4y ago
  Is there any statistical significance to that. Have the emotional baggage and social complexity younger people are dealing with and the share of middle aged people who did or could not transition been accounted for?
- f38zf5vdt 4y ago
  I don't see anything to support this in the literature. The overwhelming majority (94-98%) of youth who transition maintain their gender identity many years later as adults. [1][2] It's hard to imagine they would continue treatment if it was making them miserable. [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-kids-tend-to-maintain-their-identities-as-they-grow-up-study-suggests https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-kids-tend-to... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22)00254-1/fulltext#%20 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4...
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    AIUI, another user ITT has mentioned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33883438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33883438 that this is merely statistics of how many transitioners formally pursue detransition, and that the numbers of those who practically desist from treatment are a lot higher than that.
    - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
      The number of individuals failing to follow up on a study or even treatment for any disease at the same medical office is high, for example it's approximately 50% for _cancer_. [1] You're welcome to extrapolate to your own taste, but it's still simply an unknown -- unlike the people you _do_ have data for. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028642/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29028642/
      - zozbot234 4y ago
        But the whole question is why people are desisting from treatment that's supposed to help them reaffirm their gender. Everyone knows that cancer treatment has very uncomfortable side effects; it's not surprising that people might neglect that. Gender treatment is literally supposed to make you feel good, by treating disphoria.

the_third_wave 4y ago

> OTOH, i am unsure what do you mean by a statistical over-representation of GD. This is quite clear to me and I do not think gender dysphoria - which is a DSM-5 diagnosis [1] - is the correct term to use. Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. This did not use to be so but that does not mean similar phenomena did not occur, they just did not get a diagnosis attached to them. It is highly probable (and feed for a dissertation if there is a university which would accept such a politically charged project) that the same character types who now "self-identify as 'trans'" were those who would style themselves as "goth" or "emo" or (in the late 80's and 90's) "metrosexual" or any other androgynous style. The difference is that these earlier style figures did not come with a diagnosis nor were they adopted by any mainstream political movement and as such were taken less seriously. You could be a goth just like you could be a metalhead or a prep and be part of your in-crowd by just wearing the right clothes (and, for some crowds, make-up) and listening to the right bands. It was accepted as a way for children and young adults to "belong" without coming with much baggage. [1] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...

JeremyNT 4y ago
> Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. I don't see how you could usefully extrapolate a "real" baseline rate based on what prior generations did. Atypical sexual/gender identities have been taboo for almost the entirety of human civilization, and only as these taboos are now being lifted are people able to express these traits without fear of horrific repercussions.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  The current wave of "self-identification" was markedly absent in the wake of the '68 revolts and the ensuing "free love generation" which casts doubt upon your thesis. It is far more likely that these current "self-identification" trends are emergent properties of the availability of direct one-to-many communications media - social media and the like - which make it possible for these identity groups to emerge and grow rapidly.