5 ms·

Harassing transgender people and defaming them the way that Peterson did Eliot Page is not simply saying "men are not women." What he actually said was that the

Harassing transgender people and defaming them the way that Peterson did Eliot Page is not simply saying "men are not women." What he actually said was that the surgery that he had, to reduce his breast size in the same way a cis man who had gynecomastia would, was criminal. Here's a right leaning site with screenshots of the tweet if that makes you feel better: https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/twitter-suspends-jordan-peterson-for-elliot-page-sin-tweet/ https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/twitter-suspends-jordan-peters... Matt Walsh trolls transgender people and enjoys making their lives miserable because he believes their existence is a threat to his personal code of morality. He also wishes to ban transgender people, even adults, from receiving any sort of care beyond conversion therapy which is considered abusive and banned in many countries. https://www.mediamatters.org/matt-walsh/daily-wires-matt-walsh-says-he-supports-universal-ban-all-gender-affirming-medical-care https://www.mediamatters.org/matt-walsh/daily-wires-matt-wal... None of them are simply saying "men are not women." It's like the difference between saying you think homosexuals are deviants who should burn in hell and saying "marriage is between a man and a woman." In both cases you're trying to be a jerk, but in the former you're being a lot more aggressive about it. There's a reason why even most homophobes don't like the Westboro Baptist Church. Only the biggest jerks support openly harassing and trolling people because of things that they can't control. Even if you think being gay or trans is a mental illness, a mental illness is still something you can't control. Trolling people is obviously not an attempt to help them. It's an attempt to make them suffer because you hate them.

nailer 4y ago
> Harassing transgender people and defaming them the way that Peterson did Eliot Page Did you read the tweet you posted? Peterson’s criticisms of Ellen Page’s physician (not even Page herself) are not harassment or defamation any more than your criticisms of Peterson are.
- theprincess 4y ago
  > not even Page herself I see that you're not ideologically motivated here. ^_^ It's decidedly not "criminal" for an adult to get a surgery that is commonplace for men with gynecomastia just because they have an "F" on their birth certificate. Breast tissue is breast tissue and there is no regulation that says that anyone has to have a minimum amount of it based on their sex assigned at birth. Women have breast reductions, especially at advanced ages, to help with their mobility all the time after all. Peterson's objective was to slur Eliot Page by casting him and the doctor who treated him in a negative light. It's slimy trolling and provocation. Not speaking truth or even a simple fact like that "men are not women." Just thinly veiled hate for his hungry audience to feed on.
  - nailer 4y ago
    Nobody is saying Page isn’t allowed to have cosmetic surgery to have her breasts removed. Rather that her doctor is being harmful in letting her do so. Again please read the actual tweet you’re referring to. Separately: an adult “with F on their birth certificate” is called a woman. Ellen Page was Ellen Page when she had the surgery. The past, much like the Tweet you keep talking about, does not change because you wish it to. It’s fascinating you labelled someone that disagrees with you as ideologically driven when you believe you can determine reality with your mind.
    - theprincess 4y ago
      Nah, when someone changes their name like in the case of marriage but I don't approve of the marriage for some reason I don't go around calling them by their "real name" and refuse to acknowledge the change. When someone wants to go by another set of words to identify themselves, like pronouns, I'm also not a jerk about it. You don't know anyone's medical history. You haven't given anyone a karyotype test. You'd use a new set of names for people in many circumstances and even pronouns likely in the case of an obvious intersex condition. Your decision to call Eliot Page she against his wishes is clearly ideologically driven and hateful. A petty snub more or less. Doing it makes you a cruel person. I'm sure you don't see yourself that way, but, newsflash, humans generally want to be "good" so most cruel people think they are good and justified in their actions. They just have some toxic/anti-social ideas rooted into their sense of morality. In this case it seems you've convinced yourself that by snubbing transgender people you're somehow protecting... truth? BiOloGiCal ReAlItY? Gendered terms predate any concept of sex chromosomes or even gametes. Jeez Ottomans worried about their concubines getting pregnant from EUNUCHS because they didn't fully realize that testes created sperm or that sperm was separate from semen. That's why they preferred dark skinned eunuchs, so they could tell if a baby was illegitimate.... Which is just to say that if you want to be "traditional" gendered terms are about surface level assessments of a person's physical appearance and social roles considered appropriate to such an appearance, not biology. If you transported Patti Harrison[1] (a very passable trans woman) back to King Arthur's court she'd be treated like a lady I assure you. The even more fundamental thing though is respecting people's autonomy. It's a very aggressive act to call someone by labels that they dislike. Try continually getting someone's name wrong on purpose, maybe call a guy named Ted Bruce all the time, and see how your relationship with that person develops.... 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_WIbDd9rc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_WIbDd9rc

nailer 4y ago

> Harassing transgender people and defaming them the way that Peterson did Eliot Page Did you read the tweet you posted? Peterson’s criticisms of Ellen Page’s physician (not even Page herself) are not harassment or defamation any more than your criticisms of Peterson are.

theprincess 4y ago
> not even Page herself I see that you're not ideologically motivated here. ^_^ It's decidedly not "criminal" for an adult to get a surgery that is commonplace for men with gynecomastia just because they have an "F" on their birth certificate. Breast tissue is breast tissue and there is no regulation that says that anyone has to have a minimum amount of it based on their sex assigned at birth. Women have breast reductions, especially at advanced ages, to help with their mobility all the time after all. Peterson's objective was to slur Eliot Page by casting him and the doctor who treated him in a negative light. It's slimy trolling and provocation. Not speaking truth or even a simple fact like that "men are not women." Just thinly veiled hate for his hungry audience to feed on.
- nailer 4y ago
  Nobody is saying Page isn’t allowed to have cosmetic surgery to have her breasts removed. Rather that her doctor is being harmful in letting her do so. Again please read the actual tweet you’re referring to. Separately: an adult “with F on their birth certificate” is called a woman. Ellen Page was Ellen Page when she had the surgery. The past, much like the Tweet you keep talking about, does not change because you wish it to. It’s fascinating you labelled someone that disagrees with you as ideologically driven when you believe you can determine reality with your mind.
  - theprincess 4y ago
    Nah, when someone changes their name like in the case of marriage but I don't approve of the marriage for some reason I don't go around calling them by their "real name" and refuse to acknowledge the change. When someone wants to go by another set of words to identify themselves, like pronouns, I'm also not a jerk about it. You don't know anyone's medical history. You haven't given anyone a karyotype test. You'd use a new set of names for people in many circumstances and even pronouns likely in the case of an obvious intersex condition. Your decision to call Eliot Page she against his wishes is clearly ideologically driven and hateful. A petty snub more or less. Doing it makes you a cruel person. I'm sure you don't see yourself that way, but, newsflash, humans generally want to be "good" so most cruel people think they are good and justified in their actions. They just have some toxic/anti-social ideas rooted into their sense of morality. In this case it seems you've convinced yourself that by snubbing transgender people you're somehow protecting... truth? BiOloGiCal ReAlItY? Gendered terms predate any concept of sex chromosomes or even gametes. Jeez Ottomans worried about their concubines getting pregnant from EUNUCHS because they didn't fully realize that testes created sperm or that sperm was separate from semen. That's why they preferred dark skinned eunuchs, so they could tell if a baby was illegitimate.... Which is just to say that if you want to be "traditional" gendered terms are about surface level assessments of a person's physical appearance and social roles considered appropriate to such an appearance, not biology. If you transported Patti Harrison[1] (a very passable trans woman) back to King Arthur's court she'd be treated like a lady I assure you. The even more fundamental thing though is respecting people's autonomy. It's a very aggressive act to call someone by labels that they dislike. Try continually getting someone's name wrong on purpose, maybe call a guy named Ted Bruce all the time, and see how your relationship with that person develops.... 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_WIbDd9rc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_WIbDd9rc