5 ms·

I hire them and give them a task somewhere between support engineer that executes well documented code snippets in run books and junior engineer that does very

I hire them and give them a task somewhere between support engineer that executes well documented code snippets in run books and junior engineer that does very basic CRUD web app development. Making internal dashboards for the customer success team, etc. Give them about 32 hours of work a week and 8 hours of tutorials on other things. Build them up from there. I still lose about 35% of them. A combo of firing for lack of ability and the devs getting upset and leaving when promotions and raises come slow. Because the ugly truth is a lot of the bootcampers hit a plateau. I have had a couple push through to my bar for senior, but most cap out in my mid range. During the shortage the ability to hire and get solid mids out of 65% of them was a net positive. Right now though it is less important given the talent coming into the market.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> I still lose about 35% of them. A combo of firing for lack of ability and the devs getting upset and leaving when promotions and raises come slow. I've had similar problems. We've had some bootcamp grads who were good to work with and acknowledged that they were still very junior. We've also had some bootcamp grads who felt entitled to mid-range to senior compensation after their first year, while still getting their bearings on basic developer work. It's hard to explain that, no, I will not give them a raise to match what we're paying people with 5+ years of experience after their bootcamp promised them $200K comp after a couple years in the industry.
- cto_of_antifa 4y ago
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  Are they able to go elsewhere and find better pay?
  - enumjorge 4y ago
    I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to in the 2020 to early 2022 job market. Today’s market will be a good litmus test to see if people with surface-level knowledge and limited experience can land $200k+ a year jobs in tech.
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  > It's hard to explain that, no, I will not give them a raise to match what we're paying people with 5+ years of experience after their bootcamp promised them $200K comp after a couple years in the industry. I dunno, I think what you have right there is pretty good explanation wise, haha.
- granshaw 4y ago
  Their bootcamp should have added the caveat: at a FAANG
mritchie712 4y ago
Do you build those apps from scratch? Or are you using something like Retool?
disruptthelaw 4y ago
Have you observed any other path for new want-to-be developers other than boot camps that tends to yield better outcomes ?
- ptero 4y ago
  Not the person you are asking, but I'd say a genuine interest in the field. A couple of simple hobby projects and participation in meetups and chats can give both faster ramp-up (beyond very basic) and solid job leads. My 2c.
- ucm_edge 4y ago
  Activity is the signal. Self taught but goes to a ton of meetups. Enrolled in one of the legit online master's programs, etc. Ofttimes bootcamps can appear on these resumes. Someone did a bootcamp, realized it wasn't enough and kept growing in a manner. People who treat the bootcamp as the terminal level of knowledge plateau.
  - JCharante 4y ago
    Can't the same be said for University? I know lots of classmates who didn't do anything outside of what's mandatory. They wouldn't have a GitHub account if they weren't forced to in a class for example.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> I still lose about 35% of them. A combo of firing for lack of ability and the devs getting upset and leaving when promotions and raises come slow. I've had similar problems. We've had some bootcamp grads who were good to work with and acknowledged that they were still very junior. We've also had some bootcamp grads who felt entitled to mid-range to senior compensation after their first year, while still getting their bearings on basic developer work. It's hard to explain that, no, I will not give them a raise to match what we're paying people with 5+ years of experience after their bootcamp promised them $200K comp after a couple years in the industry.

cto_of_antifa 4y ago
TigeriusKirk 4y ago
Are they able to go elsewhere and find better pay?
- enumjorge 4y ago
  I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to in the 2020 to early 2022 job market. Today’s market will be a good litmus test to see if people with surface-level knowledge and limited experience can land $200k+ a year jobs in tech.
uejfiweun 4y ago
> It's hard to explain that, no, I will not give them a raise to match what we're paying people with 5+ years of experience after their bootcamp promised them $200K comp after a couple years in the industry. I dunno, I think what you have right there is pretty good explanation wise, haha.
granshaw 4y ago
Their bootcamp should have added the caveat: at a FAANG

mritchie712 4y ago

Do you build those apps from scratch? Or are you using something like Retool?

disruptthelaw 4y ago

Have you observed any other path for new want-to-be developers other than boot camps that tends to yield better outcomes ?

ptero 4y ago
Not the person you are asking, but I'd say a genuine interest in the field. A couple of simple hobby projects and participation in meetups and chats can give both faster ramp-up (beyond very basic) and solid job leads. My 2c.
ucm_edge 4y ago
Activity is the signal. Self taught but goes to a ton of meetups. Enrolled in one of the legit online master's programs, etc. Ofttimes bootcamps can appear on these resumes. Someone did a bootcamp, realized it wasn't enough and kept growing in a manner. People who treat the bootcamp as the terminal level of knowledge plateau.
- JCharante 4y ago
  Can't the same be said for University? I know lots of classmates who didn't do anything outside of what's mandatory. They wouldn't have a GitHub account if they weren't forced to in a class for example.