7 ms·

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been qui

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?" Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. Fourth, I genuinely have no idea how this decision was made; it was certainly not on the basis of net cost savings. We did the math.

rightbyte 4y ago
Oh ... so in dystopian Snow Crash (I read up on it) there is a also dystopian virtual reality named Metaverse. Well, I wonder i Zuck knew about that. Interesting that the book essentially seems to render the "gig economy" as some dystopian element. Quite good prediction.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  It's all very We are proud to introduce the "Torment Nexus 1", which you may know from the hit sci-fi novel "Don't Create the Torment Nexus"[0] 0. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/torment-nexus https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/torment-nexus
- andruby 4y ago
  I can only recommend you to read the book. It's amazing. It is so relevant for today, you'd be forgiven for not knowing it was actually published in 1992. But really, it's probably the best book I've ever read.
  - mcv 4y ago
    If we're going to see someone driving around with a nuclear bomb in their sidecar, it's more likely to happen in Russia than in the US, though.
    - funcDropShadow 4y ago
      But "Reason" is absolutely thinkable in the U.S.
Aperocky 4y ago
Having previously worked at a data team before the pandemic eon which raison'd etre was "saving cost", the reality is it didn't. We used advanced statistical concept and vended models for other teams/services to consume, but the truth is either it was just really obvious cost solutions that they didn't bother, or it didn't really work all that well (stats model are, unfortunately, prone to many interpretations). I've since moved on to feature based team where I feel like I'm more on the ground. And recently was able to get rid of lots of cost just by.. looking at them. I remain skeptical of the teams that base itself on statistical models to reduce cost.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Maybe the decision was made based on who was sharing critical opinions internally.
kelnos 4y ago
> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employment; maybe they are afraid of losing their health insurance, maybe they are on a visa and can't easily switch jobs, or maybe they simply aren't able to find another job that works for them. Less noble, but maybe the pay is just too good, and if they stay for just a bit longer, it will be life changing. I can totally sympathize with that! But if this opinion is "extremely common", I would expect that a good number of those people would have the ability to leave, to the point that perhaps Zuckerberg would rethink his strategy. (I don't really buy the "change things from within" explanation; 1) that rarely works, especially in a company the size of Meta, and 2) if tried, that clearly has not worked, given Meta's continuing trajectory.)
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > t is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. Most people work for the pay. Thats why you pay people: to make them work on something they dont necessarily like. Not everyone needs to be or to act like an activist.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Some people are driven by more blatantly mercenary priorities than others, but most people prefer to perform work which aligns with their morality and gains them the respect of others; it's part of that whole "hierarchy of needs". It is of course possible to meet one's higher-level needs in other parts of one's life, but if your career is actively opposing your values, it becomes that much harder to make up for what you are missing in the limited time remaining. If you can't make that balance work, burnout and depression are likely.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
milesward 4y ago
Badass response, I thought exactly the same thing
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
SanjayMehta 4y ago
I'm fascinated by the amounts spent on this metaverse. Is it really USD 20 Billion? How is it partitioned across domains?
jayd16 4y ago
The laissez-faire economics run amok US was the dystopia. The metaverse as a virtual chatroom was well liked, in universe.
jcadam 4y ago
> "I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?" But at least it was a dystopia where pizza delivery was an exciting business.
- webmaven 4y ago
  > But at least it was a dystopia where pizza delivery was an exciting business. It wasn't an exciting business. Pizza delivery was an exciting job (in all the worst ways a job can be exciting, or, TBH, just stressful), but the business part of it was quite boring. The corporate takeover denouement was perhaps the most boring scene in the book, and barely justified the "Chekhov's Guns" that were required to give a baddie a single "oh shit" moment with no payoff.
Mistletoe 4y ago
"I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?" This is such an incredible quote, I love it. And I love that you said it in your group chat. I wish more people in tech could see this forest from within the trees.
random314 4y ago
I am a huge fan of your work, Eric. I started out in PL and ended up in ML, working on far less impactful projects than you did :) However, I don't believe metaverse is a waste of time, at least for business users. This can eliminate all office space use in about 5-10 years if the hardware and software is ready, which it very likely will. Or maybe a wall to wall LED screen will do the trick for remote social presence, making the headset redundant. It can spill over from the office to personal lives like the PC did. But anyway, hope you continue to work on cool things.

rightbyte 4y ago

Oh ... so in dystopian Snow Crash (I read up on it) there is a also dystopian virtual reality named Metaverse. Well, I wonder i Zuck knew about that. Interesting that the book essentially seems to render the "gig economy" as some dystopian element. Quite good prediction.

sangnoir 4y ago
It's all very We are proud to introduce the "Torment Nexus 1", which you may know from the hit sci-fi novel "Don't Create the Torment Nexus"[0] 0. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/torment-nexus https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/torment-nexus
andruby 4y ago
I can only recommend you to read the book. It's amazing. It is so relevant for today, you'd be forgiven for not knowing it was actually published in 1992. But really, it's probably the best book I've ever read.
- mcv 4y ago
  If we're going to see someone driving around with a nuclear bomb in their sidecar, it's more likely to happen in Russia than in the US, though.
  - funcDropShadow 4y ago
    But "Reason" is absolutely thinkable in the U.S.

Aperocky 4y ago

Having previously worked at a data team before the pandemic eon which raison'd etre was "saving cost", the reality is it didn't. We used advanced statistical concept and vended models for other teams/services to consume, but the truth is either it was just really obvious cost solutions that they didn't bother, or it didn't really work all that well (stats model are, unfortunately, prone to many interpretations). I've since moved on to feature based team where I feel like I'm more on the ground. And recently was able to get rid of lots of cost just by.. looking at them. I remain skeptical of the teams that base itself on statistical models to reduce cost.

SoftTalker 4y ago

Maybe the decision was made based on who was sharing critical opinions internally.

kelnos 4y ago

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employment; maybe they are afraid of losing their health insurance, maybe they are on a visa and can't easily switch jobs, or maybe they simply aren't able to find another job that works for them. Less noble, but maybe the pay is just too good, and if they stay for just a bit longer, it will be life changing. I can totally sympathize with that! But if this opinion is "extremely common", I would expect that a good number of those people would have the ability to leave, to the point that perhaps Zuckerberg would rethink his strategy. (I don't really buy the "change things from within" explanation; 1) that rarely works, especially in a company the size of Meta, and 2) if tried, that clearly has not worked, given Meta's continuing trajectory.)

ekianjo 4y ago
> t is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. Most people work for the pay. Thats why you pay people: to make them work on something they dont necessarily like. Not everyone needs to be or to act like an activist.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  Some people are driven by more blatantly mercenary priorities than others, but most people prefer to perform work which aligns with their morality and gains them the respect of others; it's part of that whole "hierarchy of needs". It is of course possible to meet one's higher-level needs in other parts of one's life, but if your career is actively opposing your values, it becomes that much harder to make up for what you are missing in the limited time remaining. If you can't make that balance work, burnout and depression are likely.
  - ekianjo 4y ago

milesward 4y ago

Badass response, I thought exactly the same thing

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

SanjayMehta 4y ago

I'm fascinated by the amounts spent on this metaverse. Is it really USD 20 Billion? How is it partitioned across domains?

jayd16 4y ago

The laissez-faire economics run amok US was the dystopia. The metaverse as a virtual chatroom was well liked, in universe.

jcadam 4y ago

> "I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?" But at least it was a dystopia where pizza delivery was an exciting business.

webmaven 4y ago
> But at least it was a dystopia where pizza delivery was an exciting business. It wasn't an exciting business. Pizza delivery was an exciting job (in all the worst ways a job can be exciting, or, TBH, just stressful), but the business part of it was quite boring. The corporate takeover denouement was perhaps the most boring scene in the book, and barely justified the "Chekhov's Guns" that were required to give a baddie a single "oh shit" moment with no payoff.

Mistletoe 4y ago

"I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?" This is such an incredible quote, I love it. And I love that you said it in your group chat. I wish more people in tech could see this forest from within the trees.

random314 4y ago

I am a huge fan of your work, Eric. I started out in PL and ended up in ML, working on far less impactful projects than you did :) However, I don't believe metaverse is a waste of time, at least for business users. This can eliminate all office space use in about 5-10 years if the hardware and software is ready, which it very likely will. Or maybe a wall to wall LED screen will do the trick for remote social presence, making the headset redundant. It can spill over from the office to personal lives like the PC did. But anyway, hope you continue to work on cool things.