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Manhattan is getting the law enforcement it demanded.
by skymast 4y ago
Manhattan is getting the law enforcement it demanded.
- qaz_plm 4y agoWrong
- jakelazaroff 4y agoNot really. Walk around the city and you see more cops than ever. The issue is that police don’t actually prevent crime. Putting more cops on the street is like trying to use water to extinguish a grease fire.
- mario970v 4y agoThe police are not preventing crime because DeBlasio/Adams stripped the NYPD of all their power post-2020
- somehnguy 4y agoCan you explain how exactly they were stripped of all their power please?
- LAC-Tech 4y agoSo you need military, not police?
- jakelazaroff 4y agoOne prevalent narrative in NYC is that there’s an epidemic of people being pushed onto the tracks. We need more police in the subway to prevent this from happening. I was in Singapore recently. Most people there take the subway. Yet no one gets pushed onto the tracks. Why is that? It has nothing to do with cops — you rarely see them on the subway there. Instead, they have a wall between the platform and the tracks. So many problems like this have non-carceral solutions. The reactionary reach for police to solve ever problem we see is inhumane. It makes society worse.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoI'd be very happy for western cities to emulate Singapore
- lupire 4y agoBy extremely punishing petty offenses, or by harboring billion-dollar financial criminals, or by being dictatorships?
- zdragnar 4y agoSo we should use public caning and ramp up the use of the death penalty for illegal drug possession?
- jakelazaroff 4y agoKindly point out where I'm advocating for anything remotely like what you're describing here.
- zdragnar 4y agoThe idea that lawlessness or criminal behavior is inhibited by a short wall in the subway between the platform and the tracks is absurd. There are broader cultural forces at play, in particular the "non-carcerial" alternatives that Singapore employs- harsh punishments for small crimes. Giuliani's "broken windows" policies on steroids. If we wanted to emulate Singapore to make our subways safer, we would have to do much, much more than put up a little wall on the subway platform.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoThe cops are generally part of the crime problem in NYC. They also don't go after people for anything short of attempted murder (even when it's done in front of their faces), so lots of crime goes unreported.
- philwelch 4y agoNYC used to have a solution for this, it was called broken windows policing.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoThe issue is that the people most often breaking the metaphorical windows are the police themselves.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoBroken windows policing doesn't work when the cops have the city's largest supply of bricks.
- hindsightbias 4y agoor broken pens. If it isn’t written up, it did not happen.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoYes, that’s a big part of the problem. By far the most common lawbreakers I see in my day-to-day are cops committing traffic infractions. You can tell you’re by a police station solely by how impassable the sidewalk becomes for pedestrians. There was an incident recently in which someone removed an obstruction from a license plate. The police ignored the illegally obscured plate but arrested the person clearing it for “criminal mischief”. The lawlessness and selective enforcement is astonishing.
- paulgb 4y ago> There was an incident recently in which someone removed an obstruction from a license plate[…] Fortunately, the incident seems to only have encouraged him, and he’s continued to “fix” plate obstructions. https://twitter.com/gershkuntzman https://twitter.com/gershkuntzman
- silisili 4y agoWell, if law enforcement proves useless, give shopowners protection for handling it themselves. Our current attitude of just deal with it/ignore it is not only insanity, it's infuriating.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoAssuming you mean allowing them to use violence against shoplifters, I’m curious how far you think we should take this. Should we allow employees to use violent force to recover stolen wages from their employers? After all, orders of magnitude more is stolen via wage theft than shoplifting.
- silisili 4y agoWhataboutism aside, in a more just world, law enforcement and the judicial system handle things so townspeople don't have to. And that's a great thing. But what do you do when those systems stop doing anything?
- jakelazaroff 4y agoIt’s not whataboutism. You’re proposing a change to society, and I’m asking you exactly what that change would look like.
- silisili 4y agoZero liability or recourse for injuries sustained by reasonable force during the commission of a provable crime.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoSo again, if let’s say a waiter assaults their manager who isn’t covering the difference between their tips and minimum wage, that would be allowed? What if I slash the tires of an illegally parked car with an expired police placard?
- tdehnel 4y agoThis is possibly the most ridiculous argument being used today. Anyone who has looked at their speed and slowed down while driving past a cop can confirm that you’re full of it.
- 58028641 4y agoSpeeding is not shoplifting
- Spivak 4y agoYeah, and then they speed right back up after once out of view. The best you can say is that cops prevent crimes when they make their presence known and have the would-be crime doer in their sight. So sure, if you post an officer every 50 feet you might actually start deterring crime. But when we’re talking about increasing police density from basically zero to basically zero it’s not gonna do much. One method of deterring crime is the “fuck you in particular” method of ramping up the punishment crazy disproportionately to the crime but how this really works in practice is the “two americas” problem where if you’re not a group cops are targeting you’re probably not gonna get caught and made an example of. Also despite it working I think this is crazy unethical to the people caught.
- hindsightbias 4y agoNYC cops don’t have radar guns
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- scythe 4y ago>The issue is that police don't actually prevent crime. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235201001234 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004723520... https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/media/police-numbers-and-crime-rates-rapid-evidence-review-20110721.pdf https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/media/police... https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/666614 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/666614 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X10000062 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X1... https://www.nber.org/system/files/chapters/c11849/c11849.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/chapters/c11849/c11849.pdf https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0032258X15612702 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0032258X156127...
- lupire 4y ago> Research on the police–crime relationship generally shows police levels have little impact on crime rates. > Two recent studies presented evidence that prior police–crime studies were methodologically flawed and found that increased police levels reduced crime. Look like nutrition "science".
- esbranson 4y agoPolice usually prevent crime. Does everyone seriously need to watch and read Lord of the Flies? To see when police are absent, look to CHAZ. Did CHAZ not have one of the highest murder rates in the known world?