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? There have been plently of reports of Russia using S-300 missile systems in the ground attack configuration. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63247287 https:/

by u10 4y ago

? There have been plently of reports of Russia using S-300 missile systems in the ground attack configuration. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63247287 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63247287 And it is not unreasonable that the missiles may have originated from Belarus, since Russia has sortied out of the country throughout the war.

vbezhenar 4y ago
S300 is defensive missile. It makes no sense to waste it like that when you have plenty of other missiles in your arsenal. Those reports were from ukrainian rockets which failed to intercept attacking rockets. Ukraine does not want to accept this fact that they kill their own citizens with their own missiles, so they spread that kind of misinformation. BBC is not trustworthy source as UK fights on Ukraine side. Don't you think it's kind of ironic to have title "Russia’s stock of weapons running low" just when Russia bombarding entire Ukraine with hundreds of rockets as I write it. This BBC article has "Posts on social media have claimed these S-300 missiles have been repurposed by Russia to hit land targets" source. Sorry, this is nonsense source in my opinion.
- u10 4y ago
  What does or doesn't make sense doens't really matter if there is literal evidence of Russia firing S-300 missiles in ground to ground strikes. > Those reports were from ukrainian rockets which failed to intercept attacking rockets This doesn't track either, if that were the case it would be incredibly suspicious that these intercepts are failing and just through sheer bad luck that the failed intercepts consistently land on Ukrainian forces or residential areas at incredibly high rates. > Don't you think it's kind of ironic to have title "Russia’s stock of weapons running low" just when Russia bombarding entire Ukraine with hundreds of rockets as I write it. No, whatever Russia may constitute necessary reserves to actually fight a war with NATO and simply running out of missiles are two different things. Much like the reports of Russia going to the DPRK to ask for assistance in providing artillery shells, it is literally not the case that Russia is running out of artillery shells, but more likely Russia seeks to backstop the current usage to maintain necessary strategic reserves. And it doesn't really contradict the notion that Russia is in fact running out of PGM's, given that the S-300's are being used for ground attack, which Russia has massive stockpiles of and aren't really needed in the current conflict.
- rsj_hn 4y ago
  Correct, the S-300 is a sophisticated missile designed to intercept highly maneuverable airplanes that have a number of defenses. The idea that you would shoot such an expensive missile at a fixed ground target - in this case, a farm along the Polish border, where it hit a tractor and killed the tractor driver -- is crazy, and of course completely incompatible with the "Russia running out of missiles" narrative. What is much more likely is the simple explanation that these are AA missiles that Ukraine fired, trying to intercept a Russian missile or drone, and they missed their target, hitting the farm. That an AA missile failed to intercept and caused damage to infrastructure is completely normal for AA systems and has happened several times before -- an AA missile missed its target and hit an apartment building in Kharkov and another hit an office complex in Kiev. AA systems don't have a 100% interception rate, and those that don't intercept fall and cause damage in inconvenient places. As is usually the case, the simplest explanation is often the most plausible, whereas the most inflammatory explanation is what is promoted in media. Note that even Poland is urging people to remain calm and wait for an investigation, so they are actually more responsible than Western media.
  - celsoazevedo 4y ago
    > completely incompatible with the "Russia running out of missiles" narrative I haven't seen anyone saying that Russia is running out of S-300. Other precision systems yes, but not S-300, which would explain the reports of them using S-300 to target land targets both in Kharkiv and Kherson. No idea what happened here btw, just pointing out why they might be using them. Also, mistakes and malfunctions happen.
    - rsj_hn 4y ago
      There are no credible reports of S-300 being used to target any land system. The S-300 would be a very poor missile to use this way, and it would make no sense to waste it blowing up unimportant targets, when Russia is still sending large waves of cheaper-to-produce missiles at strategically important systems like power plants. You would need to believe that an expensive missile is intentionally being used to blow up a city intersection somewhere or an office building while cheaper missiles are being used to knock out transformers and military barracks. That fails basic internal consistency checks. There are, however, plenty of credible reports of Ukrainian S-300s damaging random infrastructure in these areas (and in other areas), always in the aftermath of drone attacks and cruise missile attacks when the AA systems are activated. The randomness of the targets and their distance from any strategic target is evidence that they are AA misses that missed. Then we have the physical evidence, that this is an S-300 missile.

by u10 4y ago

vbezhenar 4y ago

S300 is defensive missile. It makes no sense to waste it like that when you have plenty of other missiles in your arsenal. Those reports were from ukrainian rockets which failed to intercept attacking rockets. Ukraine does not want to accept this fact that they kill their own citizens with their own missiles, so they spread that kind of misinformation. BBC is not trustworthy source as UK fights on Ukraine side. Don't you think it's kind of ironic to have title "Russia’s stock of weapons running low" just when Russia bombarding entire Ukraine with hundreds of rockets as I write it. This BBC article has "Posts on social media have claimed these S-300 missiles have been repurposed by Russia to hit land targets" source. Sorry, this is nonsense source in my opinion.

u10 4y ago
What does or doesn't make sense doens't really matter if there is literal evidence of Russia firing S-300 missiles in ground to ground strikes. > Those reports were from ukrainian rockets which failed to intercept attacking rockets This doesn't track either, if that were the case it would be incredibly suspicious that these intercepts are failing and just through sheer bad luck that the failed intercepts consistently land on Ukrainian forces or residential areas at incredibly high rates. > Don't you think it's kind of ironic to have title "Russia’s stock of weapons running low" just when Russia bombarding entire Ukraine with hundreds of rockets as I write it. No, whatever Russia may constitute necessary reserves to actually fight a war with NATO and simply running out of missiles are two different things. Much like the reports of Russia going to the DPRK to ask for assistance in providing artillery shells, it is literally not the case that Russia is running out of artillery shells, but more likely Russia seeks to backstop the current usage to maintain necessary strategic reserves. And it doesn't really contradict the notion that Russia is in fact running out of PGM's, given that the S-300's are being used for ground attack, which Russia has massive stockpiles of and aren't really needed in the current conflict.
rsj_hn 4y ago
Correct, the S-300 is a sophisticated missile designed to intercept highly maneuverable airplanes that have a number of defenses. The idea that you would shoot such an expensive missile at a fixed ground target - in this case, a farm along the Polish border, where it hit a tractor and killed the tractor driver -- is crazy, and of course completely incompatible with the "Russia running out of missiles" narrative. What is much more likely is the simple explanation that these are AA missiles that Ukraine fired, trying to intercept a Russian missile or drone, and they missed their target, hitting the farm. That an AA missile failed to intercept and caused damage to infrastructure is completely normal for AA systems and has happened several times before -- an AA missile missed its target and hit an apartment building in Kharkov and another hit an office complex in Kiev. AA systems don't have a 100% interception rate, and those that don't intercept fall and cause damage in inconvenient places. As is usually the case, the simplest explanation is often the most plausible, whereas the most inflammatory explanation is what is promoted in media. Note that even Poland is urging people to remain calm and wait for an investigation, so they are actually more responsible than Western media.
- celsoazevedo 4y ago
  > completely incompatible with the "Russia running out of missiles" narrative I haven't seen anyone saying that Russia is running out of S-300. Other precision systems yes, but not S-300, which would explain the reports of them using S-300 to target land targets both in Kharkiv and Kherson. No idea what happened here btw, just pointing out why they might be using them. Also, mistakes and malfunctions happen.
  - rsj_hn 4y ago
    There are no credible reports of S-300 being used to target any land system. The S-300 would be a very poor missile to use this way, and it would make no sense to waste it blowing up unimportant targets, when Russia is still sending large waves of cheaper-to-produce missiles at strategically important systems like power plants. You would need to believe that an expensive missile is intentionally being used to blow up a city intersection somewhere or an office building while cheaper missiles are being used to knock out transformers and military barracks. That fails basic internal consistency checks. There are, however, plenty of credible reports of Ukrainian S-300s damaging random infrastructure in these areas (and in other areas), always in the aftermath of drone attacks and cruise missile attacks when the AA systems are activated. The randomness of the targets and their distance from any strategic target is evidence that they are AA misses that missed. Then we have the physical evidence, that this is an S-300 missile.