8 ms·

Yep. People need meat.

manmal 4y ago
B12 absorption is finicky, and meats contain rather small amounts. Injections and sublinguals are actually better at increasing levels than meat.
- zmaurelius 4y ago
  Organ meats such as beef liver provide a significant amount of B12. If you are just eating muscle meat, then you will have to eat a lot.
  - manmal 4y ago
    Excess liver consumption is a risk factor for vitamin A toxicity though, and the B12 amount varies wildly. Red meat consumption also increases cancer risk. It’s safer to take supplements from a reputable source.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Challenge accepted
newman555 4y ago
For B12? You do know that animals don’t produce B12, but microorganisms (that can be found in soil and untreated water) and that farmed animals eat B12 supplemented food? So no, people don’t need meat. Not for B12, or for proteins or for iron or for anything else. Do people want to eat meat? That’s a different story.
- knaekhoved 4y ago
  - cauefcr 4y ago
    Have you been keeping logs of all the vegans you meet to come to this conclusion? This sounds like anecdotal evidence at best.
    - knaekhoved 4y ago
  - delecti 4y ago
    Because a lot of vegans are leftist nerds, who are often scrawny. Plenty of them are fat too though. Source: I'm a leftist nerd, carrying a few too many pounds, who doesn't eat meat.
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
  If you want to turbo optimize your life and give up caffeine so your body can absorb non-heme iron be my guest. It’s far simpler to eat as omnivores as humans were meant to be, especially with so many factors on the scale against your favor.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    For me it makes no difference whether I consume animal products or not. I’ve consumed no animal products in about five months now, and aside from needing to spend a bit longer looking at labels when I first started, now I know what I’m doing I spend no more or less time on food. I take a big multivitamin in the evening and that’s it.
  - chc 4y ago
    Are you saying you believe vegans are unable to drink coffee?
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    Humans weren't "meant" to eat any single way, for what it's worth. We have the good fortune of possessing exceptionally flexible diets, but we can survive readily on many variations of what's possible. Something people frequently overlook (or are unaware of) is that in much of the world, animal agriculture utilizes B12 supplementation. This is part of why there is B12 in commercial animal products. Without that, B12 levels in commercial animal products would be lower. Further, people who eat animal products aren't guaranteed to avoid deficiencies. The idea that we "need" meat is thoroughly debunked by decades of excellent, high-quality research. What we "need" as far as B12 goes is essentially less sanitary environments; we (and animals we ate) used to get enough from food and water which wasn't clean by current standards.
CaptainNegative 4y ago
They also need Hi-C Flashin' Fruit Punch because rib eye is low in ascorbic acid.
- version_five 4y ago
  You can get that from eating whale skin, much tastier and healthier
  - dmcgee 4y ago
    Oh man, I ate whale skin in Greenland. It was hairy and tasted like a decomposing car tire. You must have had the good kind.
    - version_five 4y ago
      > tasted like a decomposing car tire Theres probably lots of cheese that you could say the same about that is well enjoyed. That said, I don't know if the whale skin I had could be called "good" to my taste. It was beluga I think, from the Canadian arctic. What was striking though was how sour it was and the strong taste of ascorbic acid. With a very chewy texture.
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Guess what? Farm animals need B12 supplements. So why not just take B12 supplements ourselves? Cut out the middleman and as a bonus lower stress on our biosphere and reduce our carbon footprint.
ben_w 4y ago
I'm existence proof to the contrary.
- wwfzyn 4y ago
  It's technically correct that we need some animal products. The big one I can think of is crude oil. It's from animals long dead and also used to make plastics. Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > crude oil. It's from animals IIRC that's mostly from plants and algae, and definitely can be substituted with things made purely from plants and algae. However, I was replying to someone who said specifically "meat", and crude oil isn't meat. > Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops. If you're that expansive, humans are also animals, and we also rely on each other's labour.
    - wwfzyn 4y ago
      Can't argue with those points. I went too far and ended up leaving the field. :-)
dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
Very true, but you know idealism, denial and delusion is a thing. Many will literally die rather than come to terms with the 'fact' that every human (without exception) needs some animal products.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Why are you so certain? To the best of my knowledge, the last time I consumed any meat (which is what you're agreeing with to begin, even though you later say the much more general "animal products" which includes milk), was on a 2015 trip to Kenya, where the cook somehow randomised the ingredients in everyone's sandwiches (I asked for a "cheese and pesto" sandwich, my cheese was switched with someone else's chicken), and the time before that was 2009, where my vegetarian lasagna was switched with someone else's beef lasagna. Even with those accidents, twice in 13 years doesn't seem like a "you're delusional if you think you can go without" kind of a thing. Also, full on vegans are a thing. I'm not one (cheese is too tempting), but it's not crazy like breatharians or whatever.
  - dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
    >Why are you so certain? I feel obliged respond. I'll try and put a short useful response. ( It becomes a little tiring to give an elaborate, well thought out response when one repeatedly encounters what one sees as irrationality). - I have _never_ see a vegan thrive (health wise) in the long run. - Many 'honest' vegans admit occasionally binge eat animal products - in your case cheese. - May 'vegans' lie outright - There are lot of ex-vegans out there, some of them who were truly committed. Search for them on the web and you will find them. - https://www.beyondveg.com/ https://www.beyondveg.com/ has information from people who probably tried being vegans from the sixties. Grandpa may have some wisdom that you may not be aware of.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      > Many 'honest' vegans admit occasionally binge eat animal products - in your case cheese. Don't call me a vegan. I'm vegetarian. That means choosing no meat, no more, no less. It does rather look like you are unfamiliar with the difference, both from this response and your previous comment replying specifically to meat. > Grandpa may have some wisdom that you may not be aware of. I'm older than I think you think I am. And both my grandfathers died before I was born.

B12 absorption is finicky, and meats contain rather small amounts. Injections and sublinguals are actually better at increasing levels than meat.

zmaurelius 4y ago
Organ meats such as beef liver provide a significant amount of B12. If you are just eating muscle meat, then you will have to eat a lot.
- manmal 4y ago
  Excess liver consumption is a risk factor for vitamin A toxicity though, and the B12 amount varies wildly. Red meat consumption also increases cancer risk. It’s safer to take supplements from a reputable source.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Challenge accepted

newman555 4y ago

For B12? You do know that animals don’t produce B12, but microorganisms (that can be found in soil and untreated water) and that farmed animals eat B12 supplemented food? So no, people don’t need meat. Not for B12, or for proteins or for iron or for anything else. Do people want to eat meat? That’s a different story.

knaekhoved 4y ago
- cauefcr 4y ago
  Have you been keeping logs of all the vegans you meet to come to this conclusion? This sounds like anecdotal evidence at best.
  - knaekhoved 4y ago
- delecti 4y ago
  Because a lot of vegans are leftist nerds, who are often scrawny. Plenty of them are fat too though. Source: I'm a leftist nerd, carrying a few too many pounds, who doesn't eat meat.
coinbasetwwa 4y ago
If you want to turbo optimize your life and give up caffeine so your body can absorb non-heme iron be my guest. It’s far simpler to eat as omnivores as humans were meant to be, especially with so many factors on the scale against your favor.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  For me it makes no difference whether I consume animal products or not. I’ve consumed no animal products in about five months now, and aside from needing to spend a bit longer looking at labels when I first started, now I know what I’m doing I spend no more or less time on food. I take a big multivitamin in the evening and that’s it.
- chc 4y ago
  Are you saying you believe vegans are unable to drink coffee?
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  Humans weren't "meant" to eat any single way, for what it's worth. We have the good fortune of possessing exceptionally flexible diets, but we can survive readily on many variations of what's possible. Something people frequently overlook (or are unaware of) is that in much of the world, animal agriculture utilizes B12 supplementation. This is part of why there is B12 in commercial animal products. Without that, B12 levels in commercial animal products would be lower. Further, people who eat animal products aren't guaranteed to avoid deficiencies. The idea that we "need" meat is thoroughly debunked by decades of excellent, high-quality research. What we "need" as far as B12 goes is essentially less sanitary environments; we (and animals we ate) used to get enough from food and water which wasn't clean by current standards.

CaptainNegative 4y ago

They also need Hi-C Flashin' Fruit Punch because rib eye is low in ascorbic acid.

version_five 4y ago
You can get that from eating whale skin, much tastier and healthier
- dmcgee 4y ago
  Oh man, I ate whale skin in Greenland. It was hairy and tasted like a decomposing car tire. You must have had the good kind.
  - version_five 4y ago
    > tasted like a decomposing car tire Theres probably lots of cheese that you could say the same about that is well enjoyed. That said, I don't know if the whale skin I had could be called "good" to my taste. It was beluga I think, from the Canadian arctic. What was striking though was how sour it was and the strong taste of ascorbic acid. With a very chewy texture.

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Guess what? Farm animals need B12 supplements. So why not just take B12 supplements ourselves? Cut out the middleman and as a bonus lower stress on our biosphere and reduce our carbon footprint.

ben_w 4y ago

I'm existence proof to the contrary.

wwfzyn 4y ago
It's technically correct that we need some animal products. The big one I can think of is crude oil. It's from animals long dead and also used to make plastics. Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > crude oil. It's from animals IIRC that's mostly from plants and algae, and definitely can be substituted with things made purely from plants and algae. However, I was replying to someone who said specifically "meat", and crude oil isn't meat. > Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops. If you're that expansive, humans are also animals, and we also rely on each other's labour.
  - wwfzyn 4y ago
    Can't argue with those points. I went too far and ended up leaving the field. :-)

dennis_jeeves1 4y ago

Very true, but you know idealism, denial and delusion is a thing. Many will literally die rather than come to terms with the 'fact' that every human (without exception) needs some animal products.

ben_w 4y ago
Why are you so certain? To the best of my knowledge, the last time I consumed any meat (which is what you're agreeing with to begin, even though you later say the much more general "animal products" which includes milk), was on a 2015 trip to Kenya, where the cook somehow randomised the ingredients in everyone's sandwiches (I asked for a "cheese and pesto" sandwich, my cheese was switched with someone else's chicken), and the time before that was 2009, where my vegetarian lasagna was switched with someone else's beef lasagna. Even with those accidents, twice in 13 years doesn't seem like a "you're delusional if you think you can go without" kind of a thing. Also, full on vegans are a thing. I'm not one (cheese is too tempting), but it's not crazy like breatharians or whatever.
- dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
  >Why are you so certain? I feel obliged respond. I'll try and put a short useful response. ( It becomes a little tiring to give an elaborate, well thought out response when one repeatedly encounters what one sees as irrationality). - I have _never_ see a vegan thrive (health wise) in the long run. - Many 'honest' vegans admit occasionally binge eat animal products - in your case cheese. - May 'vegans' lie outright - There are lot of ex-vegans out there, some of them who were truly committed. Search for them on the web and you will find them. - https://www.beyondveg.com/ https://www.beyondveg.com/ has information from people who probably tried being vegans from the sixties. Grandpa may have some wisdom that you may not be aware of.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > Many 'honest' vegans admit occasionally binge eat animal products - in your case cheese. Don't call me a vegan. I'm vegetarian. That means choosing no meat, no more, no less. It does rather look like you are unfamiliar with the difference, both from this response and your previous comment replying specifically to meat. > Grandpa may have some wisdom that you may not be aware of. I'm older than I think you think I am. And both my grandfathers died before I was born.