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It doesn't have to be something egregious like the Nigerian Prince. It could be a Craigslist concert tickets deal where you pay in advance and never hear from t

It doesn't have to be something egregious like the Nigerian Prince. It could be a Craigslist concert tickets deal where you pay in advance and never hear from the "seller" again. Why be callous to innocent victims? Unlike cash, Zelle is a digital system that could provide some protections for all parties involved, like the option to file a dispute.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dymk 4y ago
Having charges be very difficult to reverse is a protection to the user. Treat it like cash which you don’t need to carry a wallet around for.
- alxmdev 4y ago
  Why treat it like cash when it's not cash, but a digital service pushed by banks? There will always be scum that abuse a system, but the way it is now the odds are stacked against honest people.
  - refurb 4y ago
    There is no free lunch. Plenty of people complain about the delay in sending cash digitally. Or Paypal siding with a buyer and the seller having their cash pulled back automatically because the buyer lied and said they never got it. Or money being tied up for months as resolutions to disagreements are verified. Either you accept a bunch of controls to reduce fraud (and all the complexity and delay that goes along with it) or you get instant, irreversible payment transfers. Your choice.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Yeah, just like cash. Are you saying cash has no place in society? Certainly not I'd imagine - it has plenty of upsides. You just have to understand the risk model and what you can and cannot do with it.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    Because using Zelle to transfer money to someone who is not in your immediate physical vicinity is safer than putting an envelope full of cash in the mail?
friedman23 4y ago
So every time I sell something on craigslist I need to worry about being drawn into some kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare because someone might claim I didn't fulfill my end of the bargain? Got it, I'll just throw out my old stuff going forward. Why doesn't the government just do their job and catch and prosecute criminals?
- danaris 4y ago
  Catching and prosecuting criminals does approximately nothing to actually reduce crime. If you want to reduce crime, ask the government to do one of its other jobs: Provide a stable foundation for every member of the country, so that they don't have to fear being left destitute if they can't get someone richer to agree to support them (in exchange for labor). This will make an immediate difference to many (those who are committing crimes purely because they can't otherwise survive), and will, within a few generations, eliminate many other categories of criminals—those whom the current system has failed, and whose criminality has to do with finding a different kind of dignity, or sticking it to the man, or just joining the criminal economy as an alternative to the one that dropped them through its gaping cracks.
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    >Catching and prosecuting criminals does approximately nothing to actually reduce crime. I know it's wrong to be biased towards mainstream thinking, but it is fair to ask for sources for statements like that.
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      the US has the highest rate of incarceration and still has a high rate of violent crime compared to other wealthy countries
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        Doesn't prove anything? Perhaps the US has a disproportionate number of criminals.
twblalock 4y ago
If charges were easy to reverse, we would see the opposite type of scam: people buying things and then making false claims of fraud to get the charges reversed. This happens all the time with credit card chargebacks already. It would happen with Zelle too, if it was easy enough.
- paul7986 4y ago
  Indeed and just be smart only use Zelle to pay people you know personally (and or are standing right in front of you) and before sending do a test of $1. Warren here is fighting for people aren't that smart when it comes to using tech to send money.
ensignavenger 4y ago
The victim absolutely has the right to file a dispute. In a court of law, which exist for exactly that reason!
from 4y ago
Zelle has low limits for this very reason. There are reversible payment methods available if you are transacting in a low trust situation. Warren and all these activist types are going to make selling on Craigslist effectively be cash only again, and all payment systems will just be Paypal with varying degrees of bad support.
- onlycoffee 4y ago
  > all payment systems will just be Paypal I wonder if Warren is trying to intentionally accomplish that?
- staticman2 4y ago
  Zelle limits vary per bank. I've recieved an over 2 thousand dollar payment through Zelle.
themihai 4y ago
So all the digital payment methods must be a clone of paypal with "protections" for your own money? If paypal would be so great people would use only that trash.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dymk 4y ago

Having charges be very difficult to reverse is a protection to the user. Treat it like cash which you don’t need to carry a wallet around for.

alxmdev 4y ago
Why treat it like cash when it's not cash, but a digital service pushed by banks? There will always be scum that abuse a system, but the way it is now the odds are stacked against honest people.
- refurb 4y ago
  There is no free lunch. Plenty of people complain about the delay in sending cash digitally. Or Paypal siding with a buyer and the seller having their cash pulled back automatically because the buyer lied and said they never got it. Or money being tied up for months as resolutions to disagreements are verified. Either you accept a bunch of controls to reduce fraud (and all the complexity and delay that goes along with it) or you get instant, irreversible payment transfers. Your choice.
- dymk 4y ago
  Yeah, just like cash. Are you saying cash has no place in society? Certainly not I'd imagine - it has plenty of upsides. You just have to understand the risk model and what you can and cannot do with it.
- twblalock 4y ago
  Because using Zelle to transfer money to someone who is not in your immediate physical vicinity is safer than putting an envelope full of cash in the mail?

friedman23 4y ago

So every time I sell something on craigslist I need to worry about being drawn into some kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare because someone might claim I didn't fulfill my end of the bargain? Got it, I'll just throw out my old stuff going forward. Why doesn't the government just do their job and catch and prosecute criminals?

danaris 4y ago
Catching and prosecuting criminals does approximately nothing to actually reduce crime. If you want to reduce crime, ask the government to do one of its other jobs: Provide a stable foundation for every member of the country, so that they don't have to fear being left destitute if they can't get someone richer to agree to support them (in exchange for labor). This will make an immediate difference to many (those who are committing crimes purely because they can't otherwise survive), and will, within a few generations, eliminate many other categories of criminals—those whom the current system has failed, and whose criminality has to do with finding a different kind of dignity, or sticking it to the man, or just joining the criminal economy as an alternative to the one that dropped them through its gaping cracks.
- whatshisface 4y ago
  >Catching and prosecuting criminals does approximately nothing to actually reduce crime. I know it's wrong to be biased towards mainstream thinking, but it is fair to ask for sources for statements like that.
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    the US has the highest rate of incarceration and still has a high rate of violent crime compared to other wealthy countries
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      Doesn't prove anything? Perhaps the US has a disproportionate number of criminals.

twblalock 4y ago

If charges were easy to reverse, we would see the opposite type of scam: people buying things and then making false claims of fraud to get the charges reversed. This happens all the time with credit card chargebacks already. It would happen with Zelle too, if it was easy enough.

paul7986 4y ago
Indeed and just be smart only use Zelle to pay people you know personally (and or are standing right in front of you) and before sending do a test of $1. Warren here is fighting for people aren't that smart when it comes to using tech to send money.

ensignavenger 4y ago

The victim absolutely has the right to file a dispute. In a court of law, which exist for exactly that reason!

from 4y ago

Zelle has low limits for this very reason. There are reversible payment methods available if you are transacting in a low trust situation. Warren and all these activist types are going to make selling on Craigslist effectively be cash only again, and all payment systems will just be Paypal with varying degrees of bad support.

onlycoffee 4y ago
> all payment systems will just be Paypal I wonder if Warren is trying to intentionally accomplish that?
staticman2 4y ago
Zelle limits vary per bank. I've recieved an over 2 thousand dollar payment through Zelle.

themihai 4y ago

So all the digital payment methods must be a clone of paypal with "protections" for your own money? If paypal would be so great people would use only that trash.