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While manual transmission is fun and has a different feel for driving. From my experience, once your car starts outputting anything above 400hp, having a manual

While manual transmission is fun and has a different feel for driving. From my experience, once your car starts outputting anything above 400hp, having a manual takes away from that power because no matter how good of a driver you might be, you won't beat a dual-clutch automatic shift. It literally happens in milliseconds. By the time you reach for the shifter, you've already wasted power and torque. I used to think manual was the "only" way for driving fast sport cars until I test drove a Nissan GTR Nismo producing 850hp. The speed between shifts is faster than your eyes can blink (even at low speeds). It's something you can't do justice by describing. The only way to believe it is to try it. With all that said, I don't quiet see EV manufactures going manual anytime soon since we're still in a transitional period with many challenges and problems to solve before serving a niche market. Plus, most drivers nowadays that are looking to drive a manual car, probably aren't shopping for an EV.

bsagdiyev 4y ago
I've driven (daily even) a 600awhp car and didn't feel that way. I'm not trying to beat anyone on shifts, I'm trying to enjoy my car and drive. It's not always a numbers game.
b112 4y ago
While I agree dual clutch, or other manual/auto systems are better than pure auto, and perhaps faster than manual, that isn't the point. It's about control. It's about disengaging the clutch instantly, and re-engaging just as fast. It's about feathering the clutch, and fast drops from 6th to 1st. It is about control, and about feel too. It is about the driver deciding, not a machine. So sure, speed maybe, but not control.
- RickHull 4y ago
  Clutch engagement via pedal is nowhere near instant, and the dual clutch gearboxes (computer controlled) are faster. Feathering the clutch is mostly useless in everyday driving and performance driving. Likewise, dropping from 6th to 1st. Above 20mph, it's nearly always a mistake to downshift to 1st, and who is going 20mph in 6th? The only legitimate reason I can see to prefer a 3 pedal gearbox over a DCT is the ability to clutch kick to initiate oversteer, which is purely for drifting. Mostly 3 pedal cars are useful for a display of mastery, but 99% of drivers fall way short, and don't even realize it, leaving gobs of performance on the table or mismatching revs and introducing undesirable weight transfer. There is nothing an abacus does better than a calculator, but I don't begrudge abacus aficionados, and abacus mastery is quite impressive. Source: Porsche Driving Instructor for 5 years with thousands of hours in the passenger seat.
  - bsagdiyev 4y ago
    Still missing the point. I don't care that it shifts faster, I like driving a manual and do it for my enjoyment. This isn't a numbers game or who can master the clutch. This is a consistent opinion I see and I don't understand it. Let people drive a damn manual and enjoy it for what it is.
    - RickHull 4y ago
      I hoped to preclude this type of response with this: > There is nothing an abacus does better than a calculator, but I don't begrudge abacus aficionados, and abacus mastery is quite impressive. Cheers!
    - forgotpwd16 4y ago
      >Still missing the point. Using manual for enjoyment (that you're saying) is different than using for control (as in there's an actual benefit) that GP said. Rick answered precisely that point. There's no benefit to the "control" offered.
      - b112 4y ago
        There's no benefit to the "control" offered. Yes, actually, there is benefit. Rick disagreeing, doesn't mean those benefits magically vanish. The benefit is in the snow, on dirt roads, on windy, twisty paved roads. The benefit exists on high end, but more so for the average car. I grew up in Canada, live here, and cut my teeth delivering pizza, on manuals, in any weather. Warm suuny days, or -25C in a snow storm, pizza was delivered. On dirt, pavement, concrete, in freezing rain, pizza was delivered. Try googling "lake effect snow". Try googling "ice bridge". You know when you feather a clutch? When trying to ever so gently, get moving on ice or slick snow. Normal torque of even the weakest car, will have you spinning, digging a hole. You want to stop fast? On a rural, soft, dirt road? Like when a moose, or deer, appears in front of you? Many non-porche cars do not have multi-piston breaking systems. Slamming the brakes on, and throwing the car into 1st, has, in a front wheel drive, the effect of you "digging in" to the dirt. Braking distance can drop to 1/5th in such a case. No you won't destroy the tranny or clutch, for by the time you get it in first, and clutch, your foot floored on the brake has already dropped speed. Not to mention, do you want to burn a little clutch, or smash into a moose? There are other scenarios too, but urban Californians, driving high end cars, won't run into the same ones. I have no problem with someone disagreeing, and I agree with the 99% figure, but we aren't discussibg stunts, or track driving here. I mean, is it common in California, to throw a couple of bags of sand, into the trunk of rear wheel drive cars, so that in the winter you have weight over the rear wheels?

bsagdiyev 4y ago

I've driven (daily even) a 600awhp car and didn't feel that way. I'm not trying to beat anyone on shifts, I'm trying to enjoy my car and drive. It's not always a numbers game.

b112 4y ago

While I agree dual clutch, or other manual/auto systems are better than pure auto, and perhaps faster than manual, that isn't the point. It's about control. It's about disengaging the clutch instantly, and re-engaging just as fast. It's about feathering the clutch, and fast drops from 6th to 1st. It is about control, and about feel too. It is about the driver deciding, not a machine. So sure, speed maybe, but not control.

RickHull 4y ago
Clutch engagement via pedal is nowhere near instant, and the dual clutch gearboxes (computer controlled) are faster. Feathering the clutch is mostly useless in everyday driving and performance driving. Likewise, dropping from 6th to 1st. Above 20mph, it's nearly always a mistake to downshift to 1st, and who is going 20mph in 6th? The only legitimate reason I can see to prefer a 3 pedal gearbox over a DCT is the ability to clutch kick to initiate oversteer, which is purely for drifting. Mostly 3 pedal cars are useful for a display of mastery, but 99% of drivers fall way short, and don't even realize it, leaving gobs of performance on the table or mismatching revs and introducing undesirable weight transfer. There is nothing an abacus does better than a calculator, but I don't begrudge abacus aficionados, and abacus mastery is quite impressive. Source: Porsche Driving Instructor for 5 years with thousands of hours in the passenger seat.
- bsagdiyev 4y ago
  Still missing the point. I don't care that it shifts faster, I like driving a manual and do it for my enjoyment. This isn't a numbers game or who can master the clutch. This is a consistent opinion I see and I don't understand it. Let people drive a damn manual and enjoy it for what it is.
  - RickHull 4y ago
    I hoped to preclude this type of response with this: > There is nothing an abacus does better than a calculator, but I don't begrudge abacus aficionados, and abacus mastery is quite impressive. Cheers!
  - forgotpwd16 4y ago
    >Still missing the point. Using manual for enjoyment (that you're saying) is different than using for control (as in there's an actual benefit) that GP said. Rick answered precisely that point. There's no benefit to the "control" offered.
    - b112 4y ago
      There's no benefit to the "control" offered. Yes, actually, there is benefit. Rick disagreeing, doesn't mean those benefits magically vanish. The benefit is in the snow, on dirt roads, on windy, twisty paved roads. The benefit exists on high end, but more so for the average car. I grew up in Canada, live here, and cut my teeth delivering pizza, on manuals, in any weather. Warm suuny days, or -25C in a snow storm, pizza was delivered. On dirt, pavement, concrete, in freezing rain, pizza was delivered. Try googling "lake effect snow". Try googling "ice bridge". You know when you feather a clutch? When trying to ever so gently, get moving on ice or slick snow. Normal torque of even the weakest car, will have you spinning, digging a hole. You want to stop fast? On a rural, soft, dirt road? Like when a moose, or deer, appears in front of you? Many non-porche cars do not have multi-piston breaking systems. Slamming the brakes on, and throwing the car into 1st, has, in a front wheel drive, the effect of you "digging in" to the dirt. Braking distance can drop to 1/5th in such a case. No you won't destroy the tranny or clutch, for by the time you get it in first, and clutch, your foot floored on the brake has already dropped speed. Not to mention, do you want to burn a little clutch, or smash into a moose? There are other scenarios too, but urban Californians, driving high end cars, won't run into the same ones. I have no problem with someone disagreeing, and I agree with the 99% figure, but we aren't discussibg stunts, or track driving here. I mean, is it common in California, to throw a couple of bags of sand, into the trunk of rear wheel drive cars, so that in the winter you have weight over the rear wheels?