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I often wonder if humans spent as much time studying the brain as we do getting people to click on ads how much progress we could make in understanding consciou

I often wonder if humans spent as much time studying the brain as we do getting people to click on ads how much progress we could make in understanding consciousness. Seems like there is so much low hanging fruit and very few real breakthroughs. The biggest mystery in the universe is staring us right in the face.

handedness 4y ago
Just so long as it's not all the same people.
RobRivera 4y ago
the deeper I dig into buddhism the more i begin to see i am just scratching the surface of this world
- CloudRecondite 4y ago
  The answers are out there waiting to be found. History tells us they’re equal parts bizarre and beautiful.
crazygringo 4y ago
We've got a small army of philosophers of mind, and then another of neuroscience researchers working on this stuff. But the philosophers don't have a ton to do without more experiments from neuroscience, and neuroscience is doing the best it can with currently available technology. Studying the brain is really friggin' hard. I don't know where exactly you think the low-hanging fruit is, but trying to measure a brain operating at a neural level without killing it is pretty limited by our current tech.
- piyh 4y ago
  Let me tell you about cerebral organoids my dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_organoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_organoid
qudat 4y ago
I have some takes on this topic. The reason why I think we find consciousness so mysterious is because we are so intimately biased that we are blinded by what’s plainly understandable. Consciousness is an emergent property of nervous systems. https://bower.sh/what-is-consciousness https://bower.sh/what-is-consciousness
- taberiand 4y ago
  Consciousness as an emergent property of the billions of neurons and trillions of connections between them (and the complex chemical soup they slosh around in) makes sense to me as well. There was an interesting article on HN a while ago about memory and its relationship to the aggregate electrical field generated by our neurons - https://picower.mit.edu/news/neurons-are-fickle-electric-fields-are-more-reliable-information https://picower.mit.edu/news/neurons-are-fickle-electric-fie... Which I suppose, if people are looking for a singular "entity" to ascribe consciousness to, then something like an emergent electrical field might be a good candidate?
- akomtu 4y ago
  And software is an emergent property of transistors? Math must be an emergent property of paper, then.
  - qwertywert_ 4y ago
    Emergent property through evolutionary selection, do you not believe in evolution? If the brain is just processing things in complete chaos an animal would be completely useless, but with a part/thread dedicated to processing inputs and checking memory I think it is very obvious this function of consciousness would emerge through natural evolution.
    - CloudRecondite 4y ago
      You should read about philosophical zombies if you haven’t heard the concept
nsomaru 4y ago
The Vedantic perspective is that Consciousness is not understandable in a “subject-object” manner because it is the ultimate subject of all understandings which are objects appearing in Consciousness. Itself, it cannot be objectified and understood thus. There is a way of “knowing” it (Enlightenment) but this does not occur in the subject-object mode and thus this knowledge is not transferrable through language or symbols.
- anthropodie 4y ago
  It has to be experienced by the individual.
- globnomulous 4y ago
  Huh, I guess that's where Schopenhauer gets it
  - desro 4y ago
    quite literally! http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0353-5738/2004/0353-57380424163V.pdf http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0353-5738/2004/0353-57380...
    - dotsam 4y ago
      My understanding, prior to briefly reading that paper, was that Schopenhauer came up with the core of his philosophy before he came across the upanishads. When he did read them, he was delighted to find that they contained many of the same ideas that he had arrived at independently. He saw this as evidence for the deep truths in his own thinking. Whatever the true genealogy of the ideas, I think there is a considerable convergence of thought in trying to solve the same problems.
  - nsomaru 4y ago
    If memory serves, he does mention in the preface to “The World as Will and Representation” that the Vedic scholar would be best placed to understand what he is trying to say
baxtr 4y ago
Are these really two different topics though?

handedness 4y ago

Just so long as it's not all the same people.

RobRivera 4y ago

the deeper I dig into buddhism the more i begin to see i am just scratching the surface of this world

CloudRecondite 4y ago
The answers are out there waiting to be found. History tells us they’re equal parts bizarre and beautiful.

crazygringo 4y ago

We've got a small army of philosophers of mind, and then another of neuroscience researchers working on this stuff. But the philosophers don't have a ton to do without more experiments from neuroscience, and neuroscience is doing the best it can with currently available technology. Studying the brain is really friggin' hard. I don't know where exactly you think the low-hanging fruit is, but trying to measure a brain operating at a neural level without killing it is pretty limited by our current tech.

piyh 4y ago
Let me tell you about cerebral organoids my dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_organoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_organoid

qudat 4y ago

I have some takes on this topic. The reason why I think we find consciousness so mysterious is because we are so intimately biased that we are blinded by what’s plainly understandable. Consciousness is an emergent property of nervous systems. https://bower.sh/what-is-consciousness https://bower.sh/what-is-consciousness

taberiand 4y ago
Consciousness as an emergent property of the billions of neurons and trillions of connections between them (and the complex chemical soup they slosh around in) makes sense to me as well. There was an interesting article on HN a while ago about memory and its relationship to the aggregate electrical field generated by our neurons - https://picower.mit.edu/news/neurons-are-fickle-electric-fields-are-more-reliable-information https://picower.mit.edu/news/neurons-are-fickle-electric-fie... Which I suppose, if people are looking for a singular "entity" to ascribe consciousness to, then something like an emergent electrical field might be a good candidate?
akomtu 4y ago
And software is an emergent property of transistors? Math must be an emergent property of paper, then.
- qwertywert_ 4y ago
  Emergent property through evolutionary selection, do you not believe in evolution? If the brain is just processing things in complete chaos an animal would be completely useless, but with a part/thread dedicated to processing inputs and checking memory I think it is very obvious this function of consciousness would emerge through natural evolution.
  - CloudRecondite 4y ago
    You should read about philosophical zombies if you haven’t heard the concept

nsomaru 4y ago

The Vedantic perspective is that Consciousness is not understandable in a “subject-object” manner because it is the ultimate subject of all understandings which are objects appearing in Consciousness. Itself, it cannot be objectified and understood thus. There is a way of “knowing” it (Enlightenment) but this does not occur in the subject-object mode and thus this knowledge is not transferrable through language or symbols.

anthropodie 4y ago
It has to be experienced by the individual.
globnomulous 4y ago
Huh, I guess that's where Schopenhauer gets it
- desro 4y ago
  quite literally! http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0353-5738/2004/0353-57380424163V.pdf http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0353-5738/2004/0353-57380...
  - dotsam 4y ago
    My understanding, prior to briefly reading that paper, was that Schopenhauer came up with the core of his philosophy before he came across the upanishads. When he did read them, he was delighted to find that they contained many of the same ideas that he had arrived at independently. He saw this as evidence for the deep truths in his own thinking. Whatever the true genealogy of the ideas, I think there is a considerable convergence of thought in trying to solve the same problems.
- nsomaru 4y ago
  If memory serves, he does mention in the preface to “The World as Will and Representation” that the Vedic scholar would be best placed to understand what he is trying to say

baxtr 4y ago

Are these really two different topics though?