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We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago, so now we're stuck being either guinea pigs for the vaccine or for the disease. So far the vaccine has been a saf

by suyula 4y ago

We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago, so now we're stuck being either guinea pigs for the vaccine or for the disease. So far the vaccine has been a safer bet by far.

realitysballs 4y ago
I agree. There is risk in both the virus and the vaccine. And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet, although I’m sure specific biological/genetic factors can alter this calculation.
- taolegal 4y ago
  > And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people, where measuring severe outcomes is a matter of how infinitesimally close to 0% it is, I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution vs. overly self-confident scientists working alongside pharmaceutical companies maximizing profit and minimizing any knowledge of side-effects and risks associated with their products.
  - belltaco 4y ago
    >I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution And yet it's not very good against smallpox which had a 30% mortality rate and higher in infants. Not to mention HIV or Ebola.
    - taolegal 4y ago
      I love how you selectively omit my statement prefaced with "Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people," Smallpox is not covid, it's ridiculous to even compare them.
      - AstralStorm 4y ago
        You're right, the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles. And it's more evasive than that - the vaccine and acquired immunity does not hold nearly as well. Measles was controlled by mass vaccination that provides for years of neutralizing antibody response combined with merciless quarantine on outbreaks. COVID vaccine of today does not achieve that. It's still much better than nothing, but insufficient to control it.
        taolegal 4y ago
        > the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles According to what, infectiousness and transmission? Measles is still a ridiculous comparison. The only comparison is influenza, SARS or something along those lines.
        AstralStorm 4y ago
        Literally Rt for either of those is much lower, and sequelae plus death rates don't match in severity. Measles, similar to COVID, temporarily messes up immune system in a number of cases. (Though by a different mechanism.) Besides vaccine effectiveness - which is why COVID is not under control. And it took 20 years to reduce deaths from that virus worldwide. COVID explodes in similar ways as measles when it gets into a school or care facility. We are slightly lucky the Omicron is not as deadly as Delta... but new variants might be getting there soon. Even the worst influenza epidemic did not meet the Rt, and it was less deadly than Delta. That 100 years ago, before vaccines, after a huge war with starved people. Flu now has also a half decent vaccine if the predictions work, better at neutralizing it and limiting the spread. I want to hear a reasoned argument why it should be compared to influenza or SARS, besides "it is an airborne spread". Even MERS is not there.
        taolegal 4y ago
        > We are slightly lucky the Omicron is not as deadly as Delta... but new variants might be getting there soon. this is exactly the type of unbounded fearmongering and disinformation that supposed science-advocates love to spread, as though covid will slip into a wave of death at any moment after experts forced everyone to get injected under the promise that it'd all end > Flu now has also a half decent vaccine if the predictions work, better at neutralizing it and limiting the spread half decent? that's a really generous framing for hit-or-miss low efficacy.
  - xcrunner529 4y ago
    - taolegal 4y ago
      Nice anecdata, very scientific, but also yea someone's who at-risk should decide whether they want it or not.
      - xcrunner529 4y ago
        I mean it’s not anecdata. They considered Covid a hoax and didn’t take any precautions or obviously vaccines and they all caught it. There’s thousands of real life cases exactly like that because people forget we aren’t God or immortal.
    - NackerHughes 4y ago
      Covidists seem to love it when other people die, as long as their deaths reinforce the narrative they tell themselves. It's interesting to watch them suddenly lose every shred of the 'empathy' they love to preach to others about, almost as if it was never anything but a paper-thin facade of virtue signalling. Why do you feel victory when your words cause pain?
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        What's a covidist?
        xcrunner529 4y ago
        Corny motherfucker trying to be Alex Jones lmao
  - random314 4y ago
taolegal 4y ago
> We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago this is such a utopian and impossible dream, a "real communism has never been tried" escape hatch from reconciling the obvious failures of the so-called expert class & political left who's unleashed authoritarianism upon the world
- more_corn 4y ago
  Authoritarianism was not required. Just science and common sense. I recall a state department representative flying to wuhan to evacuate us citizens back to the us. No mask, shaking hands. Bro… It became apparent early that it was a respiratory infection, but masks were resisted due to idiocy and politics. It became apparent early on that there was a week or two incubation period. Those two facts, had they been taken seriously, would have utterly changed the outcome. Then again. Maybe you’re crying out against the authoritarianism of facts. It is true they can be a harsh taskmaster. They are utterly unforgiving and totally uncaring. They don’t give a shit what you believe or who’s side you are on. If you love freedom I could understand wanting to be free of facts. Let me know how that works out for ya.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    The science doesn't back any of that up. Covid spread out of Wuhun very early. Once it did, all the masking and quarantining post-infection wouldn't stop it. The few countries that did keep it under control closed their borders to keep it out and tested/traced the few infections they had to preemptively track it down. But countries that already had a nigh number of cases tried those tactics and it failed. The only country with large number of infections who got back down to Covid Zero was china, and they absolutely used authoritarian tactics. The third world was never going to accomplish that even with authoritarian tactics. There is no scenario where COVID doesn't become an a global pandemic once it escapes Wuhan. It's just too contagious.
  - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
    I think the point is that once the cat is out of the bag with a pandemic authorization measures aren't gonna fix it - so implementing them is just authoritarianism for the sake of authoritarianism

by suyula 4y ago

We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago, so now we're stuck being either guinea pigs for the vaccine or for the disease. So far the vaccine has been a safer bet by far.

realitysballs 4y ago

I agree. There is risk in both the virus and the vaccine. And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet, although I’m sure specific biological/genetic factors can alter this calculation.

taolegal 4y ago
> And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people, where measuring severe outcomes is a matter of how infinitesimally close to 0% it is, I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution vs. overly self-confident scientists working alongside pharmaceutical companies maximizing profit and minimizing any knowledge of side-effects and risks associated with their products.
- belltaco 4y ago
  >I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution And yet it's not very good against smallpox which had a 30% mortality rate and higher in infants. Not to mention HIV or Ebola.
  - taolegal 4y ago
    I love how you selectively omit my statement prefaced with "Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people," Smallpox is not covid, it's ridiculous to even compare them.
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      You're right, the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles. And it's more evasive than that - the vaccine and acquired immunity does not hold nearly as well. Measles was controlled by mass vaccination that provides for years of neutralizing antibody response combined with merciless quarantine on outbreaks. COVID vaccine of today does not achieve that. It's still much better than nothing, but insufficient to control it.
      - taolegal 4y ago
        > the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles According to what, infectiousness and transmission? Measles is still a ridiculous comparison. The only comparison is influenza, SARS or something along those lines.
        AstralStorm 4y ago
        Literally Rt for either of those is much lower, and sequelae plus death rates don't match in severity. Measles, similar to COVID, temporarily messes up immune system in a number of cases. (Though by a different mechanism.) Besides vaccine effectiveness - which is why COVID is not under control. And it took 20 years to reduce deaths from that virus worldwide. COVID explodes in similar ways as measles when it gets into a school or care facility. We are slightly lucky the Omicron is not as deadly as Delta... but new variants might be getting there soon. Even the worst influenza epidemic did not meet the Rt, and it was less deadly than Delta. That 100 years ago, before vaccines, after a huge war with starved people. Flu now has also a half decent vaccine if the predictions work, better at neutralizing it and limiting the spread. I want to hear a reasoned argument why it should be compared to influenza or SARS, besides "it is an airborne spread". Even MERS is not there.
        taolegal 4y ago
        > We are slightly lucky the Omicron is not as deadly as Delta... but new variants might be getting there soon. this is exactly the type of unbounded fearmongering and disinformation that supposed science-advocates love to spread, as though covid will slip into a wave of death at any moment after experts forced everyone to get injected under the promise that it'd all end > Flu now has also a half decent vaccine if the predictions work, better at neutralizing it and limiting the spread half decent? that's a really generous framing for hit-or-miss low efficacy.
- xcrunner529 4y ago
  - taolegal 4y ago
    Nice anecdata, very scientific, but also yea someone's who at-risk should decide whether they want it or not.
    - xcrunner529 4y ago
      I mean it’s not anecdata. They considered Covid a hoax and didn’t take any precautions or obviously vaccines and they all caught it. There’s thousands of real life cases exactly like that because people forget we aren’t God or immortal.
  - NackerHughes 4y ago
    Covidists seem to love it when other people die, as long as their deaths reinforce the narrative they tell themselves. It's interesting to watch them suddenly lose every shred of the 'empathy' they love to preach to others about, almost as if it was never anything but a paper-thin facade of virtue signalling. Why do you feel victory when your words cause pain?
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      What's a covidist?
      - xcrunner529 4y ago
        Corny motherfucker trying to be Alex Jones lmao
- random314 4y ago

taolegal 4y ago

> We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago this is such a utopian and impossible dream, a "real communism has never been tried" escape hatch from reconciling the obvious failures of the so-called expert class & political left who's unleashed authoritarianism upon the world

more_corn 4y ago
Authoritarianism was not required. Just science and common sense. I recall a state department representative flying to wuhan to evacuate us citizens back to the us. No mask, shaking hands. Bro… It became apparent early that it was a respiratory infection, but masks were resisted due to idiocy and politics. It became apparent early on that there was a week or two incubation period. Those two facts, had they been taken seriously, would have utterly changed the outcome. Then again. Maybe you’re crying out against the authoritarianism of facts. It is true they can be a harsh taskmaster. They are utterly unforgiving and totally uncaring. They don’t give a shit what you believe or who’s side you are on. If you love freedom I could understand wanting to be free of facts. Let me know how that works out for ya.
- rhino369 4y ago
  The science doesn't back any of that up. Covid spread out of Wuhun very early. Once it did, all the masking and quarantining post-infection wouldn't stop it. The few countries that did keep it under control closed their borders to keep it out and tested/traced the few infections they had to preemptively track it down. But countries that already had a nigh number of cases tried those tactics and it failed. The only country with large number of infections who got back down to Covid Zero was china, and they absolutely used authoritarian tactics. The third world was never going to accomplish that even with authoritarian tactics. There is no scenario where COVID doesn't become an a global pandemic once it escapes Wuhan. It's just too contagious.
- DontchaKnowit 4y ago
  I think the point is that once the cat is out of the bag with a pandemic authorization measures aren't gonna fix it - so implementing them is just authoritarianism for the sake of authoritarianism