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Nursing only requires a 2 year degree in the US and hardly any ongoing training apart from paid training provided by the hospital. There might be some additiona

by jcoq 4y ago

Nursing only requires a 2 year degree in the US and hardly any ongoing training apart from paid training provided by the hospital. There might be some additional certifications for certain fields, but that's it. Most nurses are paid hourly, so the "long hours" is a moot point. My nurse friends all make around 100,000 per year after overtime, which they're eager to get. The average full time salary without overtime is ~80,000. For a 2 year degree, this is very decent money in most states and I think we'd struggle to name a career with such low education requirements and high salary. I really appreciate the work of medical professionals and don't want to belittle their work. But I think nursing does standout as a counterexample to the point you're making. Neither of your links mention nursing.

linuxftw 4y ago
Nurses I know with 4 year degrees are making less than $30/hr.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  Considering the median hourly pay in 2021 was $37.31, this is easily believable and probably quite common. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab...
tchaffee 4y ago
> Nursing only requires a 2 year degree It also requires passing a licensing test. Passing the licensing test requires self-study. You need to include this time in the training requirements for the profession. Most jobs do not require a licensing test. So when comparing you need to find similar jobs with 2 year degree + licensing requirements. > The average full time salary without overtime is ~80,000. That's exaggerated. The median pay is $77,600. Or a better measure is the $37.31 per hour. That is not a high hourly rate by any measure. [1] > I think we'd struggle to name a career with such low education requirements and high salary. No we wouldn't. Large numbers of programmers don't even have a degree - it's not required for sure - and earn way more than nurses. Licensing is not required. Mandatory overtime is not rampant. Programming being a male dominated field. > Most nurses are paid hourly, so the "long hours" is a moot point. It's not moot at all. In many cases it is a job requirement, not optional. NY for example only passed a law in 2009 making mandatory overtime illegal for nurses. It was so rampant that states have passed laws about it. That makes the career far harder than most jobs where overtime is often optional. And to date, only 18 states have laws against mandatory overtime for nurses. > Neither of your links mention nursing. That's wrong. The 1st link shows a chart with a comparison of careers with similar training and the chart shows nursing in that comparison. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab...
- lumb63 4y ago
  “Not a high hourly rate”. From OP’s link: Registered nurse: $77,600 Total, all occupations: $45,760 You have to be in a bubble to think this isn’t good pay.
  - tchaffee 4y ago
    The claim is that compared to jobs with similar training requirements and similar job demands. Comparing to all occupations is a useless comparison if you want to stay on topic. There should be no need to repeat the entire context of the conversation. That's your responsibility as the reader.
  - throwaway462847 4y ago
    It’s more than a bubble. The ideology you are arguing against is so elemental to those who hold it that, to have any distance from it, they would first have to process a full-blown existential crisis.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- rendang 4y ago
  The cognitive ability required to be an RN is nowhere near that required for programming, degree or no.
  - tchaffee 4y ago
    This source shows the IQ range of nurses and computer programmers as very similar. With programmers going both slightly lower and slightly higher than nurses. Meaning there are no nurses that have as low an IQ as the lowest IQ programmer. Proving your claim definitely wrong. https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/ses/2002-hauser.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/ses/2002-hauser.pdf The jobs require different types of cognitive ability and I'd guess the average programmer would fail miserably at being a nurse due to not having the right type of cognitive ability.

by jcoq 4y ago

linuxftw 4y ago

Nurses I know with 4 year degrees are making less than $30/hr.

tchaffee 4y ago
Considering the median hourly pay in 2021 was $37.31, this is easily believable and probably quite common. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab...

tchaffee 4y ago

> Nursing only requires a 2 year degree It also requires passing a licensing test. Passing the licensing test requires self-study. You need to include this time in the training requirements for the profession. Most jobs do not require a licensing test. So when comparing you need to find similar jobs with 2 year degree + licensing requirements. > The average full time salary without overtime is ~80,000. That's exaggerated. The median pay is $77,600. Or a better measure is the $37.31 per hour. That is not a high hourly rate by any measure. [1] > I think we'd struggle to name a career with such low education requirements and high salary. No we wouldn't. Large numbers of programmers don't even have a degree - it's not required for sure - and earn way more than nurses. Licensing is not required. Mandatory overtime is not rampant. Programming being a male dominated field. > Most nurses are paid hourly, so the "long hours" is a moot point. It's not moot at all. In many cases it is a job requirement, not optional. NY for example only passed a law in 2009 making mandatory overtime illegal for nurses. It was so rampant that states have passed laws about it. That makes the career far harder than most jobs where overtime is often optional. And to date, only 18 states have laws against mandatory overtime for nurses. > Neither of your links mention nursing. That's wrong. The 1st link shows a chart with a comparison of careers with similar training and the chart shows nursing in that comparison. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm#tab...

lumb63 4y ago
“Not a high hourly rate”. From OP’s link: Registered nurse: $77,600 Total, all occupations: $45,760 You have to be in a bubble to think this isn’t good pay.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  The claim is that compared to jobs with similar training requirements and similar job demands. Comparing to all occupations is a useless comparison if you want to stay on topic. There should be no need to repeat the entire context of the conversation. That's your responsibility as the reader.
- throwaway462847 4y ago
  It’s more than a bubble. The ideology you are arguing against is so elemental to those who hold it that, to have any distance from it, they would first have to process a full-blown existential crisis.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
rendang 4y ago
The cognitive ability required to be an RN is nowhere near that required for programming, degree or no.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  This source shows the IQ range of nurses and computer programmers as very similar. With programmers going both slightly lower and slightly higher than nurses. Meaning there are no nurses that have as low an IQ as the lowest IQ programmer. Proving your claim definitely wrong. https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/ses/2002-hauser.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/ses/2002-hauser.pdf The jobs require different types of cognitive ability and I'd guess the average programmer would fail miserably at being a nurse due to not having the right type of cognitive ability.