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Knowing German I read through the sources. This article is pretty misleading. The [primary source](https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-

by leifg 4y ago

Knowing German I read through the sources. This article is pretty misleading. The [primary source](https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-airtags-im-flugzeug-koffer-erlaubt-oder-verboten-lufthansa-aeussert-sich https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-...) is a slightly clickbait article asking the questions: "Are AirTags allowed in checked luggage?". They reached out to Lufthanse asking them. They responded: "Luggage trackers are electronic devices so they have to be turned off when the luggage is checked". It is unclear wether they really understood how AirTags work and that they are not active trackers. There are a bunch of other magazine echoing this response but I have yet to find an official statement by Lufthansa explicitly banning AirTags.

Zigurd 4y ago
Best comment in this thread. This should really be about the article being a well executed recipe for clickbait.
layer8 4y ago
Translation of the cited statement by the Lufthansa spokesperson: “Baggage trackers belong to the category of Portable Electronic Devices and are therefore subject to the Dangerous Goods regulations issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization for carriage in aircraft. Accordingly, the trackers must be deactivated during the flight due to their transmission function, similar to cell phones, laptops, tablets, etc., if they are in the checked baggage.” This likely refers to the following regulations: https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/ https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/ From the 2017 addendum no. 2: “Portable electronic devices containing lithium metal or lithium ion cells or batteries […] d) if devices are carried in checked baggage: — measures must be taken to prevent unintentional activation and to protect the devices from damage; and — the devices must be completely switched off (not in sleep or hibernation mode);” Note that the AirTag batteries contain lithium. So Lufthansa is merely citing the applicable ICAO regulations, which presumably apply to all civil airlines.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  This section makes it even more confusing to me, since I thought that the whole cell phone transmission restriction theater had been removed a few years ago. Was that only within the US and I've been violating EU regulations for years?
  - core-utility 4y ago
    Is the cell phone transmission theater even lifted in the US? I still get asked to turn on airplane mode regularly (though Wi-Fi is okay)
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      Well, they used to come scream at you if you were reading a Kindle during takeoff, so that part has relaxed at least So far as I know you're supposed to put your phone into airplane mode to turn the cellular radio off, but they don't seem to care if you use bluetooth any more
      - squeaky-clean 4y ago
        The reason for that one I've heard from pilot friends is just that they want you upright and alert during takeoff and landing. I've been told to stop reading a book during a landing once. But imagine most of the flight crew don't want to deal with the potential fights from telling someone to put away a non-cellular device.
        blowski 4y ago
        I seem to remember from "Cockpit Confidential" that things could get thrown around in the air during a bumpy landing, causing a risk of head injury to passengers. This includes books.
        Semaphor 4y ago
        > want you upright and alert during takeoff I’m great at sleeping, so I sometimes fall asleep during taxi and before takeoff. That was never an issue.
Aachen 4y ago
I'm not super familiar with these systems, but don't they send out beacons using something like Bluetooth Low Energy or some similar protocol? That wouldn't be just passive and turned off unless something external powers it (like NFC could be argued to be). (Which is not to say that it's therefore a valid argument by this airline, but the title seems accurate if the trackers are sending out signals actively and that's what's prohibited.)
postalrat 4y ago
What do you mean "active tracker"? As far as I know airtags have a battery and aren't passive devices.
- yftsui 4y ago
  AirTags doesn’t report its location, the iPhone or other iOS devices report nearby AirTags. That’s the difference between an active tracker that has its own cellular connection.
  - t0mas88 4y ago
    For aviation regulations there is no different between an active or passive tracker, the rules are not about takers. The rules are about there being a lithium battery in it (there is) and whether it has a radio transmitter (it does, airtags transmit Bluetooth signals). Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked baggage. Transmitters are allowed only if turned off.
    - dghlsakjg 4y ago
      Lithium button batteries of the size you would find in a tracker are allowed in checked baggage. You are correct about transmitters though
  - croes 4y ago
    It's not about the data but about the signal as such.
daguava 4y ago
If Lufthansa doesn't understand the simple meaning of an electronic device it's all the more power for them to get destroyed with this messaging.
propogandist 4y ago
Lufthansa gave a non-answer, and there's nothing in their comment suggesting they've banned airtags in checked luggage. They will also have an impossible time enforcing it. The site "covering this" is focused on creating travel content to push credit card affiliate links. They (like most) benefit from clickbait articles that will get picked up around the web, giving them backlinks to improve SEO ranking for a competitive niche.
josephcsible 4y ago
Don't the premises "AirTags are only allowed in checked bags if they're turned off" and "AirTags can't be turned off" lead to the conclusion "AirTags aren't allowed in checked bags"?
- bdcravens 4y ago
  The battery can be removed.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    But you're also not allowed to transport lithium based batteries in checked luggage unless they are inside a powered-off device, I believe.
    - Hnrobert42 4y ago
      I think you can as long as they are stored in such a way as to prevent an accidental short circuit.
      - bdcravens 4y ago
        Per FAA, this is correct. Obviously other jurisdictions may vary https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/resources/media/Airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/resources/media/Airline_...
- usrusr 4y ago
  Sure. Just like a bazillion other coin cell powered nrf52 devices. Or like a coin cell powered digital watch. Would an F91-W be allowed in checked luggage? Perhaps not, not unless there is a specific exception. And if you ask some policy communication employee, they won't make up exceptions, they'll apply the rules at hand.
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
AirTags are pretty much active devices, they transmit data all the time. If some iPhone happens to receive that data, iPhone relays it to Apple servers and adds coordinates where it received data.
swat535 4y ago
They are banned: https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578879849577385984 https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578879849577385984

by leifg 4y ago

Zigurd 4y ago

Best comment in this thread. This should really be about the article being a well executed recipe for clickbait.

layer8 4y ago

Translation of the cited statement by the Lufthansa spokesperson: “Baggage trackers belong to the category of Portable Electronic Devices and are therefore subject to the Dangerous Goods regulations issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization for carriage in aircraft. Accordingly, the trackers must be deactivated during the flight due to their transmission function, similar to cell phones, laptops, tablets, etc., if they are in the checked baggage.” This likely refers to the following regulations: https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/ https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/ From the 2017 addendum no. 2: “Portable electronic devices containing lithium metal or lithium ion cells or batteries […] d) if devices are carried in checked baggage: — measures must be taken to prevent unintentional activation and to protect the devices from damage; and — the devices must be completely switched off (not in sleep or hibernation mode);” Note that the AirTag batteries contain lithium. So Lufthansa is merely citing the applicable ICAO regulations, which presumably apply to all civil airlines.

ajmurmann 4y ago
This section makes it even more confusing to me, since I thought that the whole cell phone transmission restriction theater had been removed a few years ago. Was that only within the US and I've been violating EU regulations for years?
- core-utility 4y ago
  Is the cell phone transmission theater even lifted in the US? I still get asked to turn on airplane mode regularly (though Wi-Fi is okay)
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    Well, they used to come scream at you if you were reading a Kindle during takeoff, so that part has relaxed at least So far as I know you're supposed to put your phone into airplane mode to turn the cellular radio off, but they don't seem to care if you use bluetooth any more
    - squeaky-clean 4y ago
      The reason for that one I've heard from pilot friends is just that they want you upright and alert during takeoff and landing. I've been told to stop reading a book during a landing once. But imagine most of the flight crew don't want to deal with the potential fights from telling someone to put away a non-cellular device.
      - blowski 4y ago
        I seem to remember from "Cockpit Confidential" that things could get thrown around in the air during a bumpy landing, causing a risk of head injury to passengers. This includes books.
      - Semaphor 4y ago
        > want you upright and alert during takeoff I’m great at sleeping, so I sometimes fall asleep during taxi and before takeoff. That was never an issue.

Aachen 4y ago

I'm not super familiar with these systems, but don't they send out beacons using something like Bluetooth Low Energy or some similar protocol? That wouldn't be just passive and turned off unless something external powers it (like NFC could be argued to be). (Which is not to say that it's therefore a valid argument by this airline, but the title seems accurate if the trackers are sending out signals actively and that's what's prohibited.)

postalrat 4y ago

What do you mean "active tracker"? As far as I know airtags have a battery and aren't passive devices.

yftsui 4y ago
AirTags doesn’t report its location, the iPhone or other iOS devices report nearby AirTags. That’s the difference between an active tracker that has its own cellular connection.
- t0mas88 4y ago
  For aviation regulations there is no different between an active or passive tracker, the rules are not about takers. The rules are about there being a lithium battery in it (there is) and whether it has a radio transmitter (it does, airtags transmit Bluetooth signals). Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked baggage. Transmitters are allowed only if turned off.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Lithium button batteries of the size you would find in a tracker are allowed in checked baggage. You are correct about transmitters though
- croes 4y ago
  It's not about the data but about the signal as such.

daguava 4y ago

If Lufthansa doesn't understand the simple meaning of an electronic device it's all the more power for them to get destroyed with this messaging.

propogandist 4y ago

Lufthansa gave a non-answer, and there's nothing in their comment suggesting they've banned airtags in checked luggage. They will also have an impossible time enforcing it. The site "covering this" is focused on creating travel content to push credit card affiliate links. They (like most) benefit from clickbait articles that will get picked up around the web, giving them backlinks to improve SEO ranking for a competitive niche.

josephcsible 4y ago

Don't the premises "AirTags are only allowed in checked bags if they're turned off" and "AirTags can't be turned off" lead to the conclusion "AirTags aren't allowed in checked bags"?

bdcravens 4y ago
The battery can be removed.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  But you're also not allowed to transport lithium based batteries in checked luggage unless they are inside a powered-off device, I believe.
  - Hnrobert42 4y ago
    I think you can as long as they are stored in such a way as to prevent an accidental short circuit.
    - bdcravens 4y ago
      Per FAA, this is correct. Obviously other jurisdictions may vary https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/resources/media/Airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/resources/media/Airline_...
usrusr 4y ago
Sure. Just like a bazillion other coin cell powered nrf52 devices. Or like a coin cell powered digital watch. Would an F91-W be allowed in checked luggage? Perhaps not, not unless there is a specific exception. And if you ask some policy communication employee, they won't make up exceptions, they'll apply the rules at hand.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

AirTags are pretty much active devices, they transmit data all the time. If some iPhone happens to receive that data, iPhone relays it to Apple servers and adds coordinates where it received data.

swat535 4y ago

They are banned: https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578879849577385984 https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578879849577385984