9 ms·

Google has a lot of failures of their own but they seem at least semi-committed to an open internet (with actual ethical standards), something I can't exactly s

Google has a lot of failures of their own but they seem at least semi-committed to an open internet (with actual ethical standards), something I can't exactly say for Zuckerberg

ajvs 4y ago
Open internet? With all their walled gardens and filter bubbles the idea is pretty laughable from Google.
- asah 4y ago
  meh, Google is "more open" than others e.g. Apple and even when they're forced to weird a stick, they do it reluctantly. Instead, like the US government, Google have developed mastery of "soft power" making it statistically-rare that they conduct Putin-like tactics. They know that heavyhanded tactics force heavyhanded responses and are actually a sign of weakness, not strength. To be fair, if their business model came under _material_ pressure to be locked down, I'm not convinced they'd stay open. As an example, look at Chrome vs adblockers - they could've shut them down years ago, but only acted when adblockers ate materially into the business and they were forced, again recognizing that they'll lose some users to Firefox and Brave.
  - _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
    I've seen arguments that Google's incentives simply align better with an open web than do those of many other big tech players, e. g. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421141091080818688.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421141091080818688.html
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      N.B. The author of that thread is a longtime Chrome contributor.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    How is Google “more open”? Surely you don’t mean because of Android? https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-18-eu-commission-google-record-fine.html https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-18-eu-commission-google-rec... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...
    - fomine3 4y ago
      Still far better than Apple for open
      - scarface74 4y ago
        How so? You can not profitable sell an Android phone without the closed sourced Google Play Services in any country outside of China any more than you can sell a phone running Darwin.
        fomine3 4y ago
        As you said, they can sell without Google for China and technically it's possible on other market (see Amazon Fire, Meta Quest) and widely used for embeddeds, thanks to open core OS. AppleOS device is by 3rd party strictly impossible.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Yes if you have the resources of a company worth over 1 trillion dollars you too can take advantage of the crumbs bestowed on you by Google to make a successful platform in the West…
        fomine3 4y ago
        You can see other non big tech examples like DJI controller, and don't miss embeddeds like credit card terminal. Anyway no 3rd party can make AppleOS device, period.

Google has a lot of failures of their own but they seem at least semi-committed to an open internet (with actual ethical standards), something I can't exactly say for Zuckerberg

ajvs 4y ago

Open internet? With all their walled gardens and filter bubbles the idea is pretty laughable from Google.

asah 4y ago
meh, Google is "more open" than others e.g. Apple and even when they're forced to weird a stick, they do it reluctantly. Instead, like the US government, Google have developed mastery of "soft power" making it statistically-rare that they conduct Putin-like tactics. They know that heavyhanded tactics force heavyhanded responses and are actually a sign of weakness, not strength. To be fair, if their business model came under _material_ pressure to be locked down, I'm not convinced they'd stay open. As an example, look at Chrome vs adblockers - they could've shut them down years ago, but only acted when adblockers ate materially into the business and they were forced, again recognizing that they'll lose some users to Firefox and Brave.
- _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
  I've seen arguments that Google's incentives simply align better with an open web than do those of many other big tech players, e. g. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421141091080818688.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421141091080818688.html
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    N.B. The author of that thread is a longtime Chrome contributor.
- scarface74 4y ago
  How is Google “more open”? Surely you don’t mean because of Android? https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-18-eu-commission-google-record-fine.html https://www.engadget.com/2018-07-18-eu-commission-google-rec... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Still far better than Apple for open
    - scarface74 4y ago
      How so? You can not profitable sell an Android phone without the closed sourced Google Play Services in any country outside of China any more than you can sell a phone running Darwin.
      - fomine3 4y ago
        As you said, they can sell without Google for China and technically it's possible on other market (see Amazon Fire, Meta Quest) and widely used for embeddeds, thanks to open core OS. AppleOS device is by 3rd party strictly impossible.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Yes if you have the resources of a company worth over 1 trillion dollars you too can take advantage of the crumbs bestowed on you by Google to make a successful platform in the West…
        fomine3 4y ago
        You can see other non big tech examples like DJI controller, and don't miss embeddeds like credit card terminal. Anyway no 3rd party can make AppleOS device, period.