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This community is funny at times. A lot of people had their opinions on those two threads, didn't they? Kudos to the ones who questioned the origin of the phe

This community is funny at times. A lot of people had their opinions on those two threads, didn't they? Kudos to the ones who questioned the origin of the phenomenon instead of declaring immediately that the world is falling.

smoldesu 4y ago
It's equally funny to see the collective sigh-of-relief expressed through this post's upvotes. OCSP is real and can hurt you, warrantless iCloud access still goes un-mitigated, but thank God! The QR code IP leak turned out to be a fake. Who knew MacOS was a nice and private operating system all along?
- derbOac 4y ago
  So... I think replication was needed and have a MacBook myself. However, the claim in question was tricky to verify because it was supposedly occuring over the course of days. I also think it says a lot about collective anxieties over not using an open OS. The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible and there wasn't really much to do about it other than try to verify it. I think the episode says less about collective unwarranted paranoia and more about collective vulnerabilities. I still am scratching my head about the new tweet though. It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible I didn't think it is plausible which is why I set up a whole bunch of replication scenarios to verify the extraordinary claim. > It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS. I think it's clear that the scanning isn't happening and that it was just Firefox refetching something? "I now believe the canary token was triggered [...] by Firefox’s “recent” shortcuts on the home screen"
    - natch 4y ago
      Unfortunately he doesn’t go the full distance and tell us unambiguously whether or not he clicked on said shortcut. Which would say nothing about the already settled macOS question but would say something about Firefox.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  OK, now how do we solve it? I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple’s or Google’s ecosystem. There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy and enjoy modern technology.
  - chaxor 4y ago
    How is using good Linux based OSes and self hosted FOSS not "enjoying modern technology". The systems are very nice honestly, because they give you much more control (e.g. windows vs Linux).
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. I don’t see a straightforward way to replace any of these with FOSS, and getting rid of them all would necessitate some serious concessions in my lifestyle.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        > Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? > Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. Most if not all of those are websites that work fine in a perfectly normal browser on whatever operating system I care to use, in my experience.
        Tijdreiziger 4y ago
aleksiy123 4y ago
It's not even at times. It's all the time. Theres many threads where the actual information is sparse but people sound extremely confident about their conclusions. Makes me realise that much of the time people are just making stuff up, there's just nobody to call them out.
- TillE 4y ago
  Yeah and to be clear, that's not merely an HN thing, or an internet thing. People - even people who seem very clever - generally have no idea what they're talking about. It's sort of exhilarating to truly understand just how much of the world is built on absolute bullshit.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > It's sort of exhilarating to truly understand just how much of the world is built on absolute bullshit. Exhilarating perhaps if the goal is to bullshit through life. Fake it until you make it, as it were. If you hate bullshit, on the other hand, it's exhausting.
  - aleksiy123 4y ago
    You're right of course. However, I think it's more dangerous on sites like HN where it's wrapped up in this illusion of rationalism, intelligence and elitism along with HN reputation for a "higher level of discourse" which makes people more likely to believe. Turns out HN falls prey to all the same human biases as everywhere else. A quick way to see it in action is find a thread about something you know deeply and read the comments.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      At the risk of falling into the age old Eternal September trap, I do feel like I've become significantly more disillusioned in the last year or so at the quality, or rather the lack thereof, of discourse on HN. It's as tribal as Reddit is, and not consistently higher quality discussion. What we do have here is dang, though, which is a lot more than Reddit generally has.

smoldesu 4y ago

It's equally funny to see the collective sigh-of-relief expressed through this post's upvotes. OCSP is real and can hurt you, warrantless iCloud access still goes un-mitigated, but thank God! The QR code IP leak turned out to be a fake. Who knew MacOS was a nice and private operating system all along?

derbOac 4y ago
So... I think replication was needed and have a MacBook myself. However, the claim in question was tricky to verify because it was supposedly occuring over the course of days. I also think it says a lot about collective anxieties over not using an open OS. The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible and there wasn't really much to do about it other than try to verify it. I think the episode says less about collective unwarranted paranoia and more about collective vulnerabilities. I still am scratching my head about the new tweet though. It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible I didn't think it is plausible which is why I set up a whole bunch of replication scenarios to verify the extraordinary claim. > It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS. I think it's clear that the scanning isn't happening and that it was just Firefox refetching something? "I now believe the canary token was triggered [...] by Firefox’s “recent” shortcuts on the home screen"
  - natch 4y ago
    Unfortunately he doesn’t go the full distance and tell us unambiguously whether or not he clicked on said shortcut. Which would say nothing about the already settled macOS question but would say something about Firefox.
Tijdreiziger 4y ago
OK, now how do we solve it? I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple’s or Google’s ecosystem. There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy and enjoy modern technology.
- chaxor 4y ago
  How is using good Linux based OSes and self hosted FOSS not "enjoying modern technology". The systems are very nice honestly, because they give you much more control (e.g. windows vs Linux).
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. I don’t see a straightforward way to replace any of these with FOSS, and getting rid of them all would necessitate some serious concessions in my lifestyle.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      > Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? > Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. Most if not all of those are websites that work fine in a perfectly normal browser on whatever operating system I care to use, in my experience.
      - Tijdreiziger 4y ago

aleksiy123 4y ago

It's not even at times. It's all the time. Theres many threads where the actual information is sparse but people sound extremely confident about their conclusions. Makes me realise that much of the time people are just making stuff up, there's just nobody to call them out.

TillE 4y ago
Yeah and to be clear, that's not merely an HN thing, or an internet thing. People - even people who seem very clever - generally have no idea what they're talking about. It's sort of exhilarating to truly understand just how much of the world is built on absolute bullshit.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > It's sort of exhilarating to truly understand just how much of the world is built on absolute bullshit. Exhilarating perhaps if the goal is to bullshit through life. Fake it until you make it, as it were. If you hate bullshit, on the other hand, it's exhausting.
- aleksiy123 4y ago
  You're right of course. However, I think it's more dangerous on sites like HN where it's wrapped up in this illusion of rationalism, intelligence and elitism along with HN reputation for a "higher level of discourse" which makes people more likely to believe. Turns out HN falls prey to all the same human biases as everywhere else. A quick way to see it in action is find a thread about something you know deeply and read the comments.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    At the risk of falling into the age old Eternal September trap, I do feel like I've become significantly more disillusioned in the last year or so at the quality, or rather the lack thereof, of discourse on HN. It's as tribal as Reddit is, and not consistently higher quality discussion. What we do have here is dang, though, which is a lot more than Reddit generally has.