7 ms·

I wish the review (or the accompanying ecosystem review) had considered the freedom/openness of each device. To me that seems like the #1 concern I would have

by dprice1 15y ago

I wish the review (or the accompanying ecosystem review) had considered the freedom/openness of each device. To me that seems like the #1 concern I would have with a reader for content I value over the long run. It has seemed to me that the Kindle is the device with the most lock-in whereas the Kobo has the least (it uses Adobe's DRM scheme, which at least has a tool which lets you move your content from device to device). I'm less sure about the Nook. Second, it has never really been completely clear to me what would happen to my content were one of these companies to go out of business. Any thoughts? Finally, since the review mentions periodicals, I think it would be great to review the periodical retention policies of the devices. I have a friend who has a Kindle and complains bitterly about its periodical retention scheme-- about how it always wants to age out (and remove) old issues of a magazine (which you have to tediously disable issue by issue), and how, once gone, you can never regain access to periodicals you once had. Want to re-read that New Yorker from last year on the upgraded Kindle you just got for Xmas? You can't... [Posting as a non-ereader owner who keeps trying to figure out which one to get; I have used my phone as a client with Kindle and Kobo stores]

tikhonj 15y ago
I recently got a Kindle 3. I actually won it rather than buying it, so I didn't do much research into alternate options, so I only really know how the Kindle works. You can just buy ebooks outside of the Amazon store and load them onto your Kindle. Calibre is a perfect program for this--it helps manage your collection and converts the files for you. It's very good at converting epub to mobi--which makes sense; the formats are related--and is pretty good with other formats. Pdf is more difficult, but it does do a decent job sometimes. Other times it's a complete mess. Thanks to Calibre, you are not really tied to Amazon for getting ebooks. If you do opt to use Amazon, you might have some issues, but I don't know because I haven't bothered. I also have no idea about periodicals because I don't read any. I basically use my Kindle to read random science fiction novels when I have free time. The real advantage of the Kindle isn't in the market (as far as I'm concerned) but in the convenience and form factor. I've actually found it easier to read than a paperback, and it lets me carry a decent collection of books around easily. I suspect other ereaders are similar in that regard.
- sant0sk1 15y ago
  Do books that you load on your Kindle with Calipre still get their metadata (read location being the main one I'd want) synced across Kindles/iOS/other devices?
  - tikhonj 15y ago
    I have no idea because I only ever use my Kindle to read stuff.
  - larsberg 15y ago
    No. Not even if you send it to your kindle via name_num@free.kindle.com. But, Calibre is now much better at generating real TOCs and remembering their position when you go to/from sections & articles. The Economist (free!) and Reuters News auto-copy and delivery through Calibre are in quite good shape these days.
    - masterj 15y ago
      >No. Not even if you send it to your kindle via name_num@free.kindle.com. This actually changed with a recent firmware update. I haven't bothered to update my kindle firmware to try it out, but personal documents should now be synced just like kindle books. Edit: This hasn't come to the apps (iOS, android, et al) yet, but will be there in a few months supposedly. http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/16/kindle-third-gen-update-brings-your-personal-files-to-the-cloud/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/16/kindle-third-gen-update-br...
- dprice1 15y ago
  I guess I should have clarified that I'd like to be able to use the device more-or-less as designed. Sideloading and conversion is nice but not something I want to do on any kind of regular basis. That is to say: Yes, I can try to overcome cumbersome DRM by applying my own labor, but there is a cost to that. In my mind, that cost would count against the value proposition of the device.
  - 15y ago
lpolovets 15y ago
I resisted the Kindle for a long time because of the DRM/openness issues that you mention. They idea of not being able to share books, to not "own" what I had paid for, etc. really bothered me. Last year, someone bought be a Kindle for Christmas, so I figured I may as well give it a try. The Kindle quickly became one of my most cherished possessions. Some observations: 1) Yes, the DRM sucks, philosophically speaking. I would even pay a little more just to get DRM-free versions, but unfortunately that's not an option (yet?). 2) Over time, you save money on books. A dollar here, two dollars there; it quickly adds up. Pretty soon, even if you ever had some book removed from your Kindle, you would have saved more than enough money to just go buy the physical copy. 3) That said, the horror stories about books getting removed (like the ironic '1984' fiasco from a few years ago) or accounts being locked are extremely rare. Out of millions or tens of millions of Kindle owners, there are only a handful of stories about people being screwed by DRM. 4) Because of the convenient form factor, the ease of taking the Kindle everywhere I go, and the ease of buying books (a double-edged sword), I read 2x as much as I used to. In 2010, I read just under 40 books; for 2011, I'm on track for about 70. For me, this alone makes the Kindle worth it, regardless of DRM. 5) You can have several Kindles under one Amazon account. This means my wife and I can buy 1 book and read it at the same time on our individual Kindles. That's pretty sweet. 6) As others in this thread have mentioned, you don't have to buy books through Amazon. That lets you potentially sidestep the DRM issue depending on the availability of what you like to read. So yes, in theory, DRM sucks, and I would happily pay higher prices to truly own everything that I purchase. In practice, the cons of DRM are outweighed by everything else.
- RexRollman 15y ago
  I've heard the occasional story of Amazon freezing a customer's access to his books because of unrelated issues with the account, like returning too many items. If I do get a Kindle, which I am currently thinking of buying, I will probably create a separate Amazon account solely for use with it.
- tspiteri 15y ago
  2) Over time, you save money on books. A dollar here, two dollars there; it quickly adds up. Pretty soon, even if you ever had some book removed from your Kindle, you would have saved more than enough money to just go buy the physical copy. With the Kindle, I started to buy books more often, as they take no physical space. So even if they are cheaper per unit, I am spending more, not saving money.
ansy 15y ago
I went a long time refusing to buy any DRM content for fear of whatever. But at the end of the day, I just write it off as an experience. I'm not paying $5 to own this book/song/software for eternity. I'm paying $5 to experience it for whatever duration it lasts. Much like paying $9 for a movie ticket to sit for two hours in a theater, I might pay $9 to read a book over several days on my device and possibly re-read it a few months down the road. It's a different mentality. But it's one we regularly apply elsewhere without similar qualms. A nice dinner. A theme park ticket. A trip overseas. I think the greatest argument against DRM is more anthropological than practical. It doesn't affect me that much at all today and now. But it would be sad indeed if future generations lost access to great works of the 21st century because of DRM.
kghose 15y ago
Well, going to http://www.gutenberg.org/ http://www.gutenberg.org/ and finding books from there is enough for me! I got the Kindle 4 for my wife and now I want one. I think the Amazon store is a little nasty (there is no "confirm" screen during purchases) and so on, but I think there are enough sources of ebooks other than Amazon. Authors can now surely offer ebooks directly from their sites, instead of involving a middle man. I don't know why this hasn't taken off. It would make for a nice return to the artisan age, where we bought stuff directly from the creators.

by dprice1 15y ago

tikhonj 15y ago

I recently got a Kindle 3. I actually won it rather than buying it, so I didn't do much research into alternate options, so I only really know how the Kindle works. You can just buy ebooks outside of the Amazon store and load them onto your Kindle. Calibre is a perfect program for this--it helps manage your collection and converts the files for you. It's very good at converting epub to mobi--which makes sense; the formats are related--and is pretty good with other formats. Pdf is more difficult, but it does do a decent job sometimes. Other times it's a complete mess. Thanks to Calibre, you are not really tied to Amazon for getting ebooks. If you do opt to use Amazon, you might have some issues, but I don't know because I haven't bothered. I also have no idea about periodicals because I don't read any. I basically use my Kindle to read random science fiction novels when I have free time. The real advantage of the Kindle isn't in the market (as far as I'm concerned) but in the convenience and form factor. I've actually found it easier to read than a paperback, and it lets me carry a decent collection of books around easily. I suspect other ereaders are similar in that regard.

sant0sk1 15y ago
Do books that you load on your Kindle with Calipre still get their metadata (read location being the main one I'd want) synced across Kindles/iOS/other devices?
- tikhonj 15y ago
  I have no idea because I only ever use my Kindle to read stuff.
- larsberg 15y ago
  No. Not even if you send it to your kindle via name_num@free.kindle.com. But, Calibre is now much better at generating real TOCs and remembering their position when you go to/from sections & articles. The Economist (free!) and Reuters News auto-copy and delivery through Calibre are in quite good shape these days.
  - masterj 15y ago
    >No. Not even if you send it to your kindle via name_num@free.kindle.com. This actually changed with a recent firmware update. I haven't bothered to update my kindle firmware to try it out, but personal documents should now be synced just like kindle books. Edit: This hasn't come to the apps (iOS, android, et al) yet, but will be there in a few months supposedly. http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/16/kindle-third-gen-update-brings-your-personal-files-to-the-cloud/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/16/kindle-third-gen-update-br...
dprice1 15y ago
I guess I should have clarified that I'd like to be able to use the device more-or-less as designed. Sideloading and conversion is nice but not something I want to do on any kind of regular basis. That is to say: Yes, I can try to overcome cumbersome DRM by applying my own labor, but there is a cost to that. In my mind, that cost would count against the value proposition of the device.
- 15y ago

lpolovets 15y ago

I resisted the Kindle for a long time because of the DRM/openness issues that you mention. They idea of not being able to share books, to not "own" what I had paid for, etc. really bothered me. Last year, someone bought be a Kindle for Christmas, so I figured I may as well give it a try. The Kindle quickly became one of my most cherished possessions. Some observations: 1) Yes, the DRM sucks, philosophically speaking. I would even pay a little more just to get DRM-free versions, but unfortunately that's not an option (yet?). 2) Over time, you save money on books. A dollar here, two dollars there; it quickly adds up. Pretty soon, even if you ever had some book removed from your Kindle, you would have saved more than enough money to just go buy the physical copy. 3) That said, the horror stories about books getting removed (like the ironic '1984' fiasco from a few years ago) or accounts being locked are extremely rare. Out of millions or tens of millions of Kindle owners, there are only a handful of stories about people being screwed by DRM. 4) Because of the convenient form factor, the ease of taking the Kindle everywhere I go, and the ease of buying books (a double-edged sword), I read 2x as much as I used to. In 2010, I read just under 40 books; for 2011, I'm on track for about 70. For me, this alone makes the Kindle worth it, regardless of DRM. 5) You can have several Kindles under one Amazon account. This means my wife and I can buy 1 book and read it at the same time on our individual Kindles. That's pretty sweet. 6) As others in this thread have mentioned, you don't have to buy books through Amazon. That lets you potentially sidestep the DRM issue depending on the availability of what you like to read. So yes, in theory, DRM sucks, and I would happily pay higher prices to truly own everything that I purchase. In practice, the cons of DRM are outweighed by everything else.

RexRollman 15y ago
I've heard the occasional story of Amazon freezing a customer's access to his books because of unrelated issues with the account, like returning too many items. If I do get a Kindle, which I am currently thinking of buying, I will probably create a separate Amazon account solely for use with it.
tspiteri 15y ago
2) Over time, you save money on books. A dollar here, two dollars there; it quickly adds up. Pretty soon, even if you ever had some book removed from your Kindle, you would have saved more than enough money to just go buy the physical copy. With the Kindle, I started to buy books more often, as they take no physical space. So even if they are cheaper per unit, I am spending more, not saving money.

ansy 15y ago

I went a long time refusing to buy any DRM content for fear of whatever. But at the end of the day, I just write it off as an experience. I'm not paying $5 to own this book/song/software for eternity. I'm paying $5 to experience it for whatever duration it lasts. Much like paying $9 for a movie ticket to sit for two hours in a theater, I might pay $9 to read a book over several days on my device and possibly re-read it a few months down the road. It's a different mentality. But it's one we regularly apply elsewhere without similar qualms. A nice dinner. A theme park ticket. A trip overseas. I think the greatest argument against DRM is more anthropological than practical. It doesn't affect me that much at all today and now. But it would be sad indeed if future generations lost access to great works of the 21st century because of DRM.

kghose 15y ago

Well, going to http://www.gutenberg.org/ http://www.gutenberg.org/ and finding books from there is enough for me! I got the Kindle 4 for my wife and now I want one. I think the Amazon store is a little nasty (there is no "confirm" screen during purchases) and so on, but I think there are enough sources of ebooks other than Amazon. Authors can now surely offer ebooks directly from their sites, instead of involving a middle man. I don't know why this hasn't taken off. It would make for a nice return to the artisan age, where we bought stuff directly from the creators.