5 ms·

Putin says nuclear threat is no bluff

9 points by already 4y ago

version_five 4y ago
This ends with > We should do all we can now to prepare a massive political response that might deter Putin from crossing the nuclear line. What would this possibly be? At this point, he must be feeling pretty secure that whatever he does he'll just face more scolding There's an article from earlier this year that I wish I could find, that basically says the longer the west waits to stand up to Russia, the worse it will eventually be when we have to. I think this is coming true, and will continue to get worse
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  I don't think that currently the west needs to do more than supply Ukraine all it needs to stand up to Russia. And the west is currently doing that, or very close. I don't see how much more they have to do before you think they're actually standing up.
  - superchroma 4y ago
    Many western outlets are still operating in Russia. That should stop immediately. Maybe months ago this was excusable, but now it's not. You don't get to point a gun at the head of the world and also enjoy global fashion and luxuries.
    - newtritious 4y ago
      Q: What can we do to stand up to someone threatening to use nuclear weapons? A: Close our remaining fashion boutiques. Seriously?
      - superchroma 4y ago
        Yes. Q: What can we do to make life uncomfortable for a country invading another country. A: Close fashion boutiques. The fact that companies have sat idle all the way to the point at which nuclear threats are being discussed and still haven't closed is a moral abomination. We have directly seen how much of a motivator the prospect of being conscripted into the Russian army is, with people protesting and criticising the government that previously supported them, at least publically. There is a class of Russian who is comfortable, and they have no right to be. When they are uncomfortable, they will demand change. Westerners should not facilitate that comfort.
        newtritious 4y ago
        It seems like you genuinely think that closing fashion boutiques will stop Putin from using a nuclear weapon, and you seem to be comparing the loss of these boutiques to being conscripted into the army. I don’t think you are being sensible.
        superchroma 4y ago
        The Russian people will do it themselves when their lives are stripped of everything that makes them worth living. The prospect of being held to their imperialist beliefs and conscripted is enough to turn nationalists against their own government. It can be done, it's merely a question of motivation.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Sure. But you think that losing fashion boutiques is going to motivate them? I mean sure, it may supply an infinitessimal increment of motivation. Do you think it's really going to be enough to matter?
        newtritious 4y ago
        Closing fashion boutiques isn’t going to do anything to “strip away everything that makes their lives worth living”. It’s a bizarre suggestion that a lack of access western clothing brands could have this effect. There are in fact Russian clothing brands and tailors, who are just as good.
  - sidibe 4y ago
    Yeah sadly theres nothing much to do besides what's being done and waiting for a lot of Ukrainians and a lot more Russian conscripts to die, basically call Putin's bluffs until he kills himself politically with body bags and the either inner circle feels he is unpopular enough to remove or the dissenting population becomes numerous enough that they actually feel numerous enough to change something.
Laaas 4y ago
> Nuclear blackmail is also used. It is not only about the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, which threatens an atomic catastrophe, but also about statements by some high-ranking representatives of leading NATO countries about the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons against Russia. I would like to remind those who make such statements about Russia that our country also possesses various means of destruction, some components of which are more advanced than those of NATO. If our territorial integrity is threatened, we will use all the means at our disposal to defend Russia and our people. This is not a bluff. From https://pastebin.com/9jGGjyRD https://pastebin.com/9jGGjyRD, transcript of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ICK2zNTBE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ICK2zNTBE
- Gatsky 4y ago
  Seems that Russia's plan is to quickly make Donetsk and Luhansk part of Russia with their sham referendum, and then threaten a nuclear attack if anyone breaches this territory. The rest of the world will force Ukraine to stop their counterattack at that point. And that's hopefully how it will wash out.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    No one recognises these referendums. Russia can stamp its feet all it wants about protecting the sham territories they have but its not going to make anyone back down. Why should Ukraine stop now? Russias been threatening to nuke everyone pretty much since the war started, Ukraines also hit Russian targets _in Russia_ multiple times and nothing happened.
superchroma 4y ago
The nature of all bluffs is that the bluffer insists they're not bluffing. Otherwise it is by definition not a bluff.
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  But he only "said" he's not bluffing. If he "insisted" that he's not bluffing, it would be much more worrisome.
hollywood_court 4y ago
I’m surprised no one close to Putin has assassinated him yet, but I imagine he suspects that and takes measures to prevent it.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  With the recent mystery deaths, I think most of his associates fear for their life right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_myste...
  - hollywood_court 4y ago
    Absolutely. Putin probably has their families at the end of a barrel in case they feel inspired to do something about him.
    - chinabot 4y ago
      Only while he is alive.
  - datadata 4y ago
    If you were an associate, wouldn't this make you more, rather than less, likely to assassinate him? I.E. if I don't take action I'll be thrown out a window next anyway?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      If you get caught by one of his bodyguards, they'll make an example out of you.
antonymy 4y ago
"This time I really mean it," he bluffed.

9 points by already 4y ago

This ends with > We should do all we can now to prepare a massive political response that might deter Putin from crossing the nuclear line. What would this possibly be? At this point, he must be feeling pretty secure that whatever he does he'll just face more scolding There's an article from earlier this year that I wish I could find, that basically says the longer the west waits to stand up to Russia, the worse it will eventually be when we have to. I think this is coming true, and will continue to get worse

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
I don't think that currently the west needs to do more than supply Ukraine all it needs to stand up to Russia. And the west is currently doing that, or very close. I don't see how much more they have to do before you think they're actually standing up.
- superchroma 4y ago
  Many western outlets are still operating in Russia. That should stop immediately. Maybe months ago this was excusable, but now it's not. You don't get to point a gun at the head of the world and also enjoy global fashion and luxuries.
  - newtritious 4y ago
    Q: What can we do to stand up to someone threatening to use nuclear weapons? A: Close our remaining fashion boutiques. Seriously?
    - superchroma 4y ago
      Yes. Q: What can we do to make life uncomfortable for a country invading another country. A: Close fashion boutiques. The fact that companies have sat idle all the way to the point at which nuclear threats are being discussed and still haven't closed is a moral abomination. We have directly seen how much of a motivator the prospect of being conscripted into the Russian army is, with people protesting and criticising the government that previously supported them, at least publically. There is a class of Russian who is comfortable, and they have no right to be. When they are uncomfortable, they will demand change. Westerners should not facilitate that comfort.
      - newtritious 4y ago
        It seems like you genuinely think that closing fashion boutiques will stop Putin from using a nuclear weapon, and you seem to be comparing the loss of these boutiques to being conscripted into the army. I don’t think you are being sensible.
        superchroma 4y ago
        The Russian people will do it themselves when their lives are stripped of everything that makes them worth living. The prospect of being held to their imperialist beliefs and conscripted is enough to turn nationalists against their own government. It can be done, it's merely a question of motivation.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Sure. But you think that losing fashion boutiques is going to motivate them? I mean sure, it may supply an infinitessimal increment of motivation. Do you think it's really going to be enough to matter?
        newtritious 4y ago
        Closing fashion boutiques isn’t going to do anything to “strip away everything that makes their lives worth living”. It’s a bizarre suggestion that a lack of access western clothing brands could have this effect. There are in fact Russian clothing brands and tailors, who are just as good.
- sidibe 4y ago
  Yeah sadly theres nothing much to do besides what's being done and waiting for a lot of Ukrainians and a lot more Russian conscripts to die, basically call Putin's bluffs until he kills himself politically with body bags and the either inner circle feels he is unpopular enough to remove or the dissenting population becomes numerous enough that they actually feel numerous enough to change something.

Laaas 4y ago

> Nuclear blackmail is also used. It is not only about the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, which threatens an atomic catastrophe, but also about statements by some high-ranking representatives of leading NATO countries about the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons against Russia. I would like to remind those who make such statements about Russia that our country also possesses various means of destruction, some components of which are more advanced than those of NATO. If our territorial integrity is threatened, we will use all the means at our disposal to defend Russia and our people. This is not a bluff. From https://pastebin.com/9jGGjyRD https://pastebin.com/9jGGjyRD, transcript of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ICK2zNTBE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ICK2zNTBE

Gatsky 4y ago
Seems that Russia's plan is to quickly make Donetsk and Luhansk part of Russia with their sham referendum, and then threaten a nuclear attack if anyone breaches this territory. The rest of the world will force Ukraine to stop their counterattack at that point. And that's hopefully how it will wash out.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  No one recognises these referendums. Russia can stamp its feet all it wants about protecting the sham territories they have but its not going to make anyone back down. Why should Ukraine stop now? Russias been threatening to nuke everyone pretty much since the war started, Ukraines also hit Russian targets _in Russia_ multiple times and nothing happened.

superchroma 4y ago

The nature of all bluffs is that the bluffer insists they're not bluffing. Otherwise it is by definition not a bluff.

brokenmachine 4y ago
But he only "said" he's not bluffing. If he "insisted" that he's not bluffing, it would be much more worrisome.

hollywood_court 4y ago

I’m surprised no one close to Putin has assassinated him yet, but I imagine he suspects that and takes measures to prevent it.

smoldesu 4y ago
With the recent mystery deaths, I think most of his associates fear for their life right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_myste...
- hollywood_court 4y ago
  Absolutely. Putin probably has their families at the end of a barrel in case they feel inspired to do something about him.
  - chinabot 4y ago
    Only while he is alive.
- datadata 4y ago
  If you were an associate, wouldn't this make you more, rather than less, likely to assassinate him? I.E. if I don't take action I'll be thrown out a window next anyway?
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    If you get caught by one of his bodyguards, they'll make an example out of you.

antonymy 4y ago

"This time I really mean it," he bluffed.