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There will be many loopholes and ways to still stream gambling, but the main result of this hopefully is the end of #ad gambling streams which are very dishones

by kmnc 4y ago

There will be many loopholes and ways to still stream gambling, but the main result of this hopefully is the end of #ad gambling streams which are very dishonest and show a glorified version of gambling (100k bonus buys, 1k per spin) with absolutely no way to know where the money is coming from since it is all crypto. Watching someone spin 1k slots knowing they are making millions from advertising is very different from watching someone spin 5 dollar slots of their own money. The excitement level from a viewer perspective is also way less. The danger, and likely future however is sites like DraftKings and Fanduel setting up slots and being allowed fully, then sponsoring streamers. Basically, the danger with banning the unregulated stuff yet still being very supportive of gambling (which Twitch and more so Amazon obviously are) is opening a door to further normalization and mainstream acceptance of gambling (see Poker taking a nosedive due to regulation yet paving the way for the massive boom in fantasy sports)... but hey, at least some guy in Curacao won't be getting the millions, some CEO and shareholders in the US will. Still, it is a good step by twitch, and I hope it really does end the #ad gambling streams. We may see a surge in Fantasy sports betting and e-sports betting though. Having xQC watch NFL games on stream while betting thousands on regulated sites is probably a future Amazon would be very happy with.

Nextgrid 4y ago
> Watching someone spin 1k slots knowing they are making millions from advertising is very different from watching someone spin 5 dollar slots of their own money It's not just where the money is coming from but whether the odds are different from regular players. The gambling sites who sponsor this can very well adjust the odds per user so that the streamer gets consistent wins where as real players get the real odds which favor the house. I've seen such gambling "ads" on YouTube, obviously they're not presented as ads nor even as gambling, rather they're presented as a way of making money, a loophole in the game, all the way to saying that there used to be an old version of this game but they closed it down due to many people winning, but this new game also has a loophole (how convenient!). In the "ad", they were consistently winning, in such a way where there's basically no way to lose even if you tried it on purpose. I very much doubt the video was falsified, rather the gambling platform was able to change the odds per-use so that their affiliates can get consistent wins so they can promote the platforms without requiring video trickery.
- vkou 4y ago
  This sort of chicanery is precisely why I'm of the mind that, while gambling should not be banned (as that just drives it underground) it should be banned from advertising/twitch/etc. Let people get into destructive behaviours, but for Pete's sake, don't promote the damn thing.
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  The trickery is not via RTP, it is by other means, which I better not share here, it is a common marketing strategy. Rest assured, there is no tricks with rtp, but the tricks in use are morally not exactly better than that, the industry insiders im high enough positions know. And of course the streamers.
- lovehashbrowns 4y ago
  At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Two of those websites, the ones I’m familiar with, use (at least some of) the same third party websites. For example, Pragmatic Play. It’s a vastly different conspiracy to say that the websites listed on Twitch’s policy are setting odds in favor of their affiliates when it involves at least two different companies. That’s not to say this has never happened before, though. There was previously a website called CSGO Shuffle on Twitch that was setting odds in favor of their owners and partners, but those owners and partners also didn’t disclose that they were advertising and didn’t disclose that they were involved in the company. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phantoml0rd-gambling-site-own-secretly-csgo https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phan...
  - Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
    >At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Not strictly true. Casino operators have access to the game provider tools. Some providers allow you to tweak RTP per game or even per player. Yes, the Casino operator doesn't make the games, but they don't need to when the game creators expose all this configuration through their tooling and APIs.
ajross 4y ago
> opening a door to further normalization and mainstream acceptance of gambling Meh. I don't know that that's resolvable. The fundamental desire for this in the market is real, the job of regulation is just to keep a lid on the worst excesses. Given the choice between a very large regulated market for a good and a somewhat smaller but completely unregulated black market for the same good, most people would prefer the former even if there are sharp edges.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Big-business gambling is no less damaging (or no less "excessive") than small-business gambling. The real difference between big and small is whether the people pocketing the profits tithe a portion of them to political campaigns or not.
  - ajross 4y ago
    Unregulated black markets breed auxiliary crime, they always do. If you don't have the option to sue people to get back money you're owed, you're forced to resort to less savory options. And on the other side of the incentives calculus, people who defraud and steal from regulated businesses and their customers tend to go to jail. Rip off a fellow criminal and most of the time no one cares. The solution is legalization and regulation, and to the extent society can't bring itself to do that, it's tantamount to declaring its willingness to tolerate the black market replacement.

by kmnc 4y ago

Nextgrid 4y ago

> Watching someone spin 1k slots knowing they are making millions from advertising is very different from watching someone spin 5 dollar slots of their own money It's not just where the money is coming from but whether the odds are different from regular players. The gambling sites who sponsor this can very well adjust the odds per user so that the streamer gets consistent wins where as real players get the real odds which favor the house. I've seen such gambling "ads" on YouTube, obviously they're not presented as ads nor even as gambling, rather they're presented as a way of making money, a loophole in the game, all the way to saying that there used to be an old version of this game but they closed it down due to many people winning, but this new game also has a loophole (how convenient!). In the "ad", they were consistently winning, in such a way where there's basically no way to lose even if you tried it on purpose. I very much doubt the video was falsified, rather the gambling platform was able to change the odds per-use so that their affiliates can get consistent wins so they can promote the platforms without requiring video trickery.

vkou 4y ago
This sort of chicanery is precisely why I'm of the mind that, while gambling should not be banned (as that just drives it underground) it should be banned from advertising/twitch/etc. Let people get into destructive behaviours, but for Pete's sake, don't promote the damn thing.
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
The trickery is not via RTP, it is by other means, which I better not share here, it is a common marketing strategy. Rest assured, there is no tricks with rtp, but the tricks in use are morally not exactly better than that, the industry insiders im high enough positions know. And of course the streamers.
lovehashbrowns 4y ago
At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Two of those websites, the ones I’m familiar with, use (at least some of) the same third party websites. For example, Pragmatic Play. It’s a vastly different conspiracy to say that the websites listed on Twitch’s policy are setting odds in favor of their affiliates when it involves at least two different companies. That’s not to say this has never happened before, though. There was previously a website called CSGO Shuffle on Twitch that was setting odds in favor of their owners and partners, but those owners and partners also didn’t disclose that they were advertising and didn’t disclose that they were involved in the company. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phantoml0rd-gambling-site-own-secretly-csgo https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phan...
- Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
  >At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Not strictly true. Casino operators have access to the game provider tools. Some providers allow you to tweak RTP per game or even per player. Yes, the Casino operator doesn't make the games, but they don't need to when the game creators expose all this configuration through their tooling and APIs.

ajross 4y ago

> opening a door to further normalization and mainstream acceptance of gambling Meh. I don't know that that's resolvable. The fundamental desire for this in the market is real, the job of regulation is just to keep a lid on the worst excesses. Given the choice between a very large regulated market for a good and a somewhat smaller but completely unregulated black market for the same good, most people would prefer the former even if there are sharp edges.

pessimizer 4y ago
Big-business gambling is no less damaging (or no less "excessive") than small-business gambling. The real difference between big and small is whether the people pocketing the profits tithe a portion of them to political campaigns or not.
- ajross 4y ago
  Unregulated black markets breed auxiliary crime, they always do. If you don't have the option to sue people to get back money you're owed, you're forced to resort to less savory options. And on the other side of the incentives calculus, people who defraud and steal from regulated businesses and their customers tend to go to jail. Rip off a fellow criminal and most of the time no one cares. The solution is legalization and regulation, and to the extent society can't bring itself to do that, it's tantamount to declaring its willingness to tolerate the black market replacement.