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I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we h
by FooHentai 4y ago
I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simply never murder anyone.
Honestly, bravo. He's at the point in his career that he really doesn't need to prove anything, and as such is uniquely positioned to make this kind of statement with at least a vague chance that it will be heeded.
- Scarblac 4y agoBut online blitz chess when you're 16 is not "part of a professional competitive career".
- 6nf 4y agoChess.com put out a statement refuting Hans' claims that he only cheated twice and Hans has not responded yet.
- Rallen89 4y agoChess.com ( magnus carlsons sponser) put out a statement refuting Hans' claims that he only cheated twice and Hans has not responded yet.(and chess. com have yet to show any evidence of said cheating)
- Ekaros 4y agoThen again I would put less than zero credibility to entity that has financial investment on the accuser in this case. Ofc, they will tow that line.
- LeChuck 4y agoYou're saying Hans only cheated twice, and chess.com is falsy accusing him of cheating more often than that because they're working on a takeover of Magnus' company? That's straying pretty far into conspiracy theory territory.
- Ekaros 4y agoI think they were probably pressured by Magnus who out of malice after losing a game is targeting promising player... Which I think is entirely reasonable reading of situation after seeing actions take by a player.
- vintermann 4y agoIt can be. Being professional doesn't mean being good, it means doing something for money, and there is money at stake in some online blitz tournaments. One important question is whether Niemann has cheated in tournaments with prizes or "only" in ladder-type games (he's only admitted to the latter as I understand)
- perihelions 4y agoIt's professional either way, since he used his Chess.com profile for his Twitch streaming.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago> I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that. There is no permissiveness here. Hans has played according to the rule of the tournament. There is no evidence of cheating. That’s it. Unless you have proof of what you are advancing, you are just bullying a teenager. The conduct of the chess community has a whole has been nothing short of shameful in this instance.
- FooHentai 4y agoDoes any of what you just said not also apply to Carlsen?
- bayindirh 4y ago> There is no permissiveness here. Shall we permissive against people who cheated, or who admitted to have cheated? If this is permissible, or even acceptable why we have a word for this? Note: Consider this as a meta question. This is not related to Hans or Magnus, but to humans at large, incl. me and you.
- KingMob 4y agoHe's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.
- WastingMyTime89 4y agoSorry but that’s garbage. You either have evidence or you don’t. You can’t just say: once guilty always guilty and be fine with that. I find the general holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude expressed by most armchair commenters extremely off putting.
- Luc 4y ago> holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude That's what I see in your comments, haha. Let the man protest. It appears to be quite effective. There is a long history of positive change coming from quiet, stubborn, non-violent protest outside the rules.
- linkdd 4y ago> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good Yeah, justice! If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life. After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future. </sarcasm>
- Nokinside 4y agoIn some areas of life the rule is more strict. Even a lowlife should be allowed to seek jobs etc. But lowlife should not be allowed in professional chess, and professional chess is not place for second changes.
- stonogo 4y agoChess is a game.
- manojlds 4y agoGreat comparisons. Lance Armstrong has not been allowed to cycle to the grocery store a well
- fileeditview 4y agoI am absolutely not decided on the issue but you should always remember that the "guy" caught cheating was 12 and 16 when it happened.. I mean he was a kid. Kids do stupid things. So we should not overrate what happened in the past.
- willsmith72 4y agoThe "kid" is only 19. If this were 10 years ago I would get your point, but "kids do stupid things" doesn't apply when he already admitted to doing it only 3 years ago as a 16 year old.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoyou are comparing a no-stakes online blitz games to performance in professional over the board tournaments.
- Tenoke 4y agoThe only confirmed cheating we know is online, in a no prize money setting at ages 12 and 16. This is hardly sufficent for banning him for life in FIDE OTB Tournaments as an adult if they don't have other evidence. It's like banning a sports player for life for cheating in high school games or an academic for cheating in their math test as a kid.
- xalco 4y agoSo... From now on, all teenagers between 12 and 16 should be allowed to cheat in online no prize money settings...
- jpgvm 4y agoA good counter-example is s1mple from the Counterstrike: Global Offensive scene. He was known to have cheated when he was a teenager but went on a redemption arc that has seen him become not only the statistically best player to ever play the game but also one of its most mature and respected players. All the while under intense scrutiny for cheating because of his history. I don't think one and out forever is really the way to deal with cheating in teenagers, they are yet to fully understand the consequences of their actions or how to deal with pressure/emotions - especially in online settings when the temptation is higher and the fallout less obvious.
- kevinmchugh 4y agoIt probably is also not a standard that can be practically upheld in an online setting. In both of these cases as I understand them, the cheater did so on their main account. If they'd created a new account to cheat on, would people have known?
- jpgvm 4y agoUnless they have good OpSec then yes. Valve issues VAC bans for associated accounts when they believe they are linked.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. No, you shouldn't. People make mistakes, especially children. It is simply immoral to close any path to redemption for them. Also, anti-cheating measures on second-rate chess site chess.com are known to produce a lot of false positives. Niemann was never caught cheating in over the board games, so people trying to kill his career because of Carlsen's unspoken allegations should be ashamed of themselves.