16 ms·

Asking permission to disagree? Are they our parents?

by hizxy 4y ago

caprock 4y ago
This sentiment is one I understand, and I'm not fond of deference to power either. That section of the article though, illustrates an example which I would say is useful when challenging any idea, not just one from a person with more "power". It's a small signal that you're going to challenge the ideas, and it gives the other party room to prepare. A social protocol if you will. There are quite a few good ideas in tfa. The power deference is frustrating, but it's also a reality with groups of humans. In the end, you can build up your own forms of informal power and social capital if you deal with this kind of situation pragmatically. As a result you can become someone people will trust to discuss ideas effectively.
Jemaclus 4y ago
You should probably read the rest of that paragraph. It specifically starts off with "this may seem overly deferential," and then goes into explaining it in more detail about what exactly they meant. The way I read it, it's not about asking permission, per se, it's about setting expectations. "Head's up, I'm about to disagree with you." Also by giving them this ability to "opt in" to the disagreement, you're creating a relationship based on trust. In other words, they're hearing you respectfully express your thoughts and feelings, and that makes them _more_ likely to listen to you in the future, versus just barging in with your thoughts unannounced. (Contrariwise, if they say "no" too many times, then they don't trust you or your opinions -- and that's information for you to do what you wish!) And sometimes? Your boss doesn't want you to disagree, they just want you to execute, saving both of you the time and energy of arguing. You may still disagree, and you may not like their decision to just execute, but at the end of the day, they're the boss and you aren't. You're free to get another job! As a leader in my company, I welcome disagreement early on. But at some point, we have to execute and we can't get stuck in a stalemate because I want A and you want B. Someone has to make a decision, and as the superior, that responsibility lies with me (or in some contexts, it lies with my superior, even if I disagree!). (P.S. You are allowed to disagree with your parents, too!)
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  You're as free to get another job as your wallet and opportunity allows you. Usually that is not worth a lot. It also depends on what you're disagreeing about and whether your manager has enough of a pull to get it changed. Usually rank and file employees are barred from expressing opinions about strategy at all. Permission or not, you will get ignored. The best you may get is more work as an experiment, with little reward and low chances of success.
- hizxy 4y ago
  Thanks for the clarification.
xeromal 4y ago
No, it's a strategy. I accidentally stumbled on the permission to disagree when arguing with my partner. We both do it now. Sometimes people aren't in the mood to argue/debate. When you ask permission, if they say yes, they usually keep their emotions in check. If they say no, you save the battle for another day. It's a great way to build respect.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Its arse licking. Instead of brown nosing, just disagree. If you ask permission to disagree, you don't tend to get respect. You become seen as a fucking doormat. Just speak plainly and clearly.
  - xeromal 4y ago
    Wife: Do I look fat? Me, speaking plainly and clearly, Yes Child: is the macaroni statue I made of you pretty? Me, speaking plainly and clearly, no, it's hoorendous
    - wombatpm 4y ago
      Wife: Do I look fat? Me: Only when compared to this stunning macaroni statue. I prefer to dodge answers and let others argue it out
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      Honestly, I wish people took this approach more often. Yes you look fat, and incredibly sexy. No, it’s not pretty, but I love that you’ve made a statue of me.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    What do you think “beg to differ” means?

Asking permission to disagree? Are they our parents?

by hizxy 4y ago

Asking permission to disagree? Are they our parents?

This sentiment is one I understand, and I'm not fond of deference to power either. That section of the article though, illustrates an example which I would say is useful when challenging any idea, not just one from a person with more "power". It's a small signal that you're going to challenge the ideas, and it gives the other party room to prepare. A social protocol if you will. There are quite a few good ideas in tfa. The power deference is frustrating, but it's also a reality with groups of humans. In the end, you can build up your own forms of informal power and social capital if you deal with this kind of situation pragmatically. As a result you can become someone people will trust to discuss ideas effectively.

Jemaclus 4y ago

You should probably read the rest of that paragraph. It specifically starts off with "this may seem overly deferential," and then goes into explaining it in more detail about what exactly they meant. The way I read it, it's not about asking permission, per se, it's about setting expectations. "Head's up, I'm about to disagree with you." Also by giving them this ability to "opt in" to the disagreement, you're creating a relationship based on trust. In other words, they're hearing you respectfully express your thoughts and feelings, and that makes them _more_ likely to listen to you in the future, versus just barging in with your thoughts unannounced. (Contrariwise, if they say "no" too many times, then they don't trust you or your opinions -- and that's information for you to do what you wish!) And sometimes? Your boss doesn't want you to disagree, they just want you to execute, saving both of you the time and energy of arguing. You may still disagree, and you may not like their decision to just execute, but at the end of the day, they're the boss and you aren't. You're free to get another job! As a leader in my company, I welcome disagreement early on. But at some point, we have to execute and we can't get stuck in a stalemate because I want A and you want B. Someone has to make a decision, and as the superior, that responsibility lies with me (or in some contexts, it lies with my superior, even if I disagree!). (P.S. You are allowed to disagree with your parents, too!)

AstralStorm 4y ago
You're as free to get another job as your wallet and opportunity allows you. Usually that is not worth a lot. It also depends on what you're disagreeing about and whether your manager has enough of a pull to get it changed. Usually rank and file employees are barred from expressing opinions about strategy at all. Permission or not, you will get ignored. The best you may get is more work as an experiment, with little reward and low chances of success.
hizxy 4y ago
Thanks for the clarification.

xeromal 4y ago

No, it's a strategy. I accidentally stumbled on the permission to disagree when arguing with my partner. We both do it now. Sometimes people aren't in the mood to argue/debate. When you ask permission, if they say yes, they usually keep their emotions in check. If they say no, you save the battle for another day. It's a great way to build respect.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
Its arse licking. Instead of brown nosing, just disagree. If you ask permission to disagree, you don't tend to get respect. You become seen as a fucking doormat. Just speak plainly and clearly.
- xeromal 4y ago
  Wife: Do I look fat? Me, speaking plainly and clearly, Yes Child: is the macaroni statue I made of you pretty? Me, speaking plainly and clearly, no, it's hoorendous
  - wombatpm 4y ago
    Wife: Do I look fat? Me: Only when compared to this stunning macaroni statue. I prefer to dodge answers and let others argue it out
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Honestly, I wish people took this approach more often. Yes you look fat, and incredibly sexy. No, it’s not pretty, but I love that you’ve made a statue of me.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  What do you think “beg to differ” means?