7 ms·

What the interns have wrought, 2022 edition

90 points by yminsky 4y ago

adamsmith143 4y ago
[flagged]
- kahrl 4y ago
  ?
- mwint 4y ago
  Read the article, these are highly technical, generalized projects. That they were paid for by an investment firm and then released as OS means _we_ siphoned value out of the financial system.
  - adamsmith143 4y ago
    >That they were paid for by an investment firm and then released as OS means _we_ siphoned value out of the financial system. If you think they are getting paid to generate OS projects you aren't thinking about this very hard.
    - mwint 4y ago
      Well, Jane Street paid them to do work they presumably wouldn’t otherwise have done, and that work appears to have made it into OS. So Jane Street’s profiting from this work is irrelevant, they paid for it and we have it.
      - adamsmith143 4y ago
        "I stabbed this child but luckily during the surgery they needed to survive they found a malignant tumor so really I am benevolent and actually saved their life."
    - pdpi 4y ago
      They're getting paid as part of Jane Street's investment into their hiring pipeline. Then the internship projects got published as open source, which also benefits their hiring pipeline. There's nothing untoward about any of that. At the end of the day, they feed their hiring pipeline, interns get work experience and some cash, and we all get some genuinely interesting open source projects. Win/win/win.
peterhadlaw 4y ago
Jane Street discriminates based on what school you went to, during their hiring practices.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- protomyth 4y ago
  That's ok, some of the universities reject applications from PO Boxes or application fees paid with money orders. The filters work from a certain point of view, but I cannot help but wonder how much talent sits on the sidelines because nobody has time or the inclination to look.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    Lots! The statement that "talent is evenly distributed across the world, but opportunity is not" is very, very true.
- aketchum 4y ago
  This seems fine. There are some schools where it is simply not worth allocating your finite amount of recruiting resources. It by no way means that there are not super smart people at those schools, just that the percentage of students that fit your hiring criteria is too low to justify spending time at those institutions.
  - ausbah 4y ago
    it's probably more like if your school isn't an ivy, stanford, mit, whatever you're resume goes right in the trash. also that logic is super self perpetuating and I imagine could be used to justify other worse forms of discrimination (not saying at Jane Street but in general)
    - hpkuarg 4y ago
      That's fine. Considering the business Jane Street engages in is highly competitive (maybe even the most competitive in the world), if their hiring practices cause them to have lower productivity, the market will force them to correct their practices or go out of business. In fact, historical evidence shows amply that the more competitive an industry, the less discrimination (of the sort that we talk about now, like on racial or ethnic grounds) is to be found; and the most regulated, monopolistic, or anti-competitive the field, the more such discrimination is found.
AlwaysRock 4y ago
Jane Street interns get paid very well. It's one of the few companies that probably actually compensate interns at the level of their output. These seem like cool projects. Good for the interns.
- guywithahat 4y ago
  No offense but just out of curiosity have you ever had interns working under you in the past?
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    I havnt managed them directly but I've worked closely with two. One who was pretty much the friend of the owner and pretty useless. One who was really incredible and got a return offer right away and finished a full project while there. Obviously not all interns are equal. I guess I should have clarified that I meant at companies like Jane Street which have strong internship programs. They have difficult interview processes, pay very well, and interns actually do interesting work.
  - PragmaticPulp 4y ago
    The high level of compensation for these specific interns reflects their high level of talent. It's extremely difficult to get an internship at a company like this. These aren't run of the mill interns who are coasting through college and trying to check the internship box.
Dig1t 4y ago
Pretty impressive projects, did they only have 3 interns though?
- ajkjk 4y ago
  > And once again, the program was bigger than ever. We had 122 dev interns globally, coming from 42 different schools and 13 countries. As the program grows, it gets harder and harder to summarize it with any degree of fidelity by picking just three projects.
Zaheer 4y ago
Fun fact: Jane Street interns get paid $96 / hr. They're one of the top paying internships! https://www.levels.fyi/internships/ https://www.levels.fyi/internships/
- rnk 4y ago
  That is high pay - you interrupted my expected post of saying other companies pay well. Most big companies (faangs but not just them) I've worked in have paid interns pro-rated wages slightly below a minimum starting pay, so maybe the equivalent of 75k. But 96/hr is 200k annually. I agree that's very high pay for an intern. Do they pay beginning devs that much? And the next step is how much for a regular experienced dev.
  - jfrbfbreudh 4y ago
    New grads start at ~$388k/yr. Every grad gets the same baseline offer.
ramesh31 4y ago
Is anyone else blown away by the level of talent in this younger cohort nowadays? We have interns and juniors doing solid mid level work.
- vsareto 4y ago
  That's definitely senior-level work
- 22SAS 4y ago
  Their interns are easily the top 1% of CS students in the US. Some of their interns who attend CMU already have OCaml experience, as CMU uses OCaml for their compilers course. Some of their interns have interned at other trading firms.
  - lupire 4y ago
    The OP stuff is brilliant (I guess) but it's small libraries. It's not "senior" work that manages a lot of complexity and deployment risk and $MM cost/benefit tradeoffs, it's hard/smart small work. Exactly what you want smart juniors to do. Many seniors would never be able to do the stuff in the OP.
keepquestioning 4y ago
I wish this evil company would stop spamming the internet for PR.
oxff 4y ago
They have the only podcast worth a shit too.
- apengwin 4y ago
  bill simmons podcast is very good too

90 points by yminsky 4y ago

adamsmith143 4y ago

[flagged]

kahrl 4y ago
?
mwint 4y ago
Read the article, these are highly technical, generalized projects. That they were paid for by an investment firm and then released as OS means _we_ siphoned value out of the financial system.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  >That they were paid for by an investment firm and then released as OS means _we_ siphoned value out of the financial system. If you think they are getting paid to generate OS projects you aren't thinking about this very hard.
  - mwint 4y ago
    Well, Jane Street paid them to do work they presumably wouldn’t otherwise have done, and that work appears to have made it into OS. So Jane Street’s profiting from this work is irrelevant, they paid for it and we have it.
    - adamsmith143 4y ago
      "I stabbed this child but luckily during the surgery they needed to survive they found a malignant tumor so really I am benevolent and actually saved their life."
  - pdpi 4y ago
    They're getting paid as part of Jane Street's investment into their hiring pipeline. Then the internship projects got published as open source, which also benefits their hiring pipeline. There's nothing untoward about any of that. At the end of the day, they feed their hiring pipeline, interns get work experience and some cash, and we all get some genuinely interesting open source projects. Win/win/win.

peterhadlaw 4y ago

Jane Street discriminates based on what school you went to, during their hiring practices.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
protomyth 4y ago
That's ok, some of the universities reject applications from PO Boxes or application fees paid with money orders. The filters work from a certain point of view, but I cannot help but wonder how much talent sits on the sidelines because nobody has time or the inclination to look.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  Lots! The statement that "talent is evenly distributed across the world, but opportunity is not" is very, very true.
aketchum 4y ago
This seems fine. There are some schools where it is simply not worth allocating your finite amount of recruiting resources. It by no way means that there are not super smart people at those schools, just that the percentage of students that fit your hiring criteria is too low to justify spending time at those institutions.
- ausbah 4y ago
  it's probably more like if your school isn't an ivy, stanford, mit, whatever you're resume goes right in the trash. also that logic is super self perpetuating and I imagine could be used to justify other worse forms of discrimination (not saying at Jane Street but in general)
  - hpkuarg 4y ago
    That's fine. Considering the business Jane Street engages in is highly competitive (maybe even the most competitive in the world), if their hiring practices cause them to have lower productivity, the market will force them to correct their practices or go out of business. In fact, historical evidence shows amply that the more competitive an industry, the less discrimination (of the sort that we talk about now, like on racial or ethnic grounds) is to be found; and the most regulated, monopolistic, or anti-competitive the field, the more such discrimination is found.

AlwaysRock 4y ago

Jane Street interns get paid very well. It's one of the few companies that probably actually compensate interns at the level of their output. These seem like cool projects. Good for the interns.

guywithahat 4y ago
No offense but just out of curiosity have you ever had interns working under you in the past?
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  I havnt managed them directly but I've worked closely with two. One who was pretty much the friend of the owner and pretty useless. One who was really incredible and got a return offer right away and finished a full project while there. Obviously not all interns are equal. I guess I should have clarified that I meant at companies like Jane Street which have strong internship programs. They have difficult interview processes, pay very well, and interns actually do interesting work.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  The high level of compensation for these specific interns reflects their high level of talent. It's extremely difficult to get an internship at a company like this. These aren't run of the mill interns who are coasting through college and trying to check the internship box.

Dig1t 4y ago

Pretty impressive projects, did they only have 3 interns though?

ajkjk 4y ago
> And once again, the program was bigger than ever. We had 122 dev interns globally, coming from 42 different schools and 13 countries. As the program grows, it gets harder and harder to summarize it with any degree of fidelity by picking just three projects.

Zaheer 4y ago

Fun fact: Jane Street interns get paid $96 / hr. They're one of the top paying internships! https://www.levels.fyi/internships/ https://www.levels.fyi/internships/

rnk 4y ago
That is high pay - you interrupted my expected post of saying other companies pay well. Most big companies (faangs but not just them) I've worked in have paid interns pro-rated wages slightly below a minimum starting pay, so maybe the equivalent of 75k. But 96/hr is 200k annually. I agree that's very high pay for an intern. Do they pay beginning devs that much? And the next step is how much for a regular experienced dev.
- jfrbfbreudh 4y ago
  New grads start at ~$388k/yr. Every grad gets the same baseline offer.

ramesh31 4y ago

Is anyone else blown away by the level of talent in this younger cohort nowadays? We have interns and juniors doing solid mid level work.

vsareto 4y ago
That's definitely senior-level work
22SAS 4y ago
Their interns are easily the top 1% of CS students in the US. Some of their interns who attend CMU already have OCaml experience, as CMU uses OCaml for their compilers course. Some of their interns have interned at other trading firms.
- lupire 4y ago
  The OP stuff is brilliant (I guess) but it's small libraries. It's not "senior" work that manages a lot of complexity and deployment risk and $MM cost/benefit tradeoffs, it's hard/smart small work. Exactly what you want smart juniors to do. Many seniors would never be able to do the stuff in the OP.

keepquestioning 4y ago

I wish this evil company would stop spamming the internet for PR.

oxff 4y ago

They have the only podcast worth a shit too.

apengwin 4y ago
bill simmons podcast is very good too