6 ms·

Help Improve Gnome

46 points by blueant 4y ago

squarefoot 4y ago
Sorry, I think it's too late. It may have become a good (albeit dumbed down and resource hungry) UI for tablets, but in the process you left out desktop/laptops PCs, and lots of people moved away because of this.
pmontra 4y ago
> sudo snap install --classic gnome-info-collect I was tempted to install it but it's a snap on Ubuntu. I don't really like that Canonical is pushing snap so much. Hopefully it will go the way of Unity but it will take too long for me. I'm considering to switch to a different distribution, Debian derived.
- rhamzeh 4y ago
  I faced the same dilemma. I despise snap. I wanted something Debian based too, but I ended up biting the bullet and crossing over to Fedora Silverblue - it's different than the normal Fedora builds, in it's intentional design for Flatpaks + Podman being the core and minimizing system wide installations. It worked really well for me, and somehow even better system support* than I had with Ubuntu, something I didn't think was possible. * Better system support: as in 0 issues sleeping/waking from sleep, reading from fingerprint reader, connecting to bluetooth, switching sound output, connecting controllers, and switching between different multi monitor setups. I mean Ubuntu was great, miles better than my work provided Macbook Pro (that is a study in frustration), but the Fedora Silverblue installation ups the ante, pure gnome is also slightly better than Ubuntu's tweaks.
ropeladder 4y ago
Asking for help by submitting your data, instead of contributing or actually having any deliberate influence over the project, is a bit on the nose for a desktop environment so famous for its "my way or the highway" approach.
- lawgimenez 4y ago
  Same. I thought they open sourced something.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nix23 4y ago
hericium 4y ago
idoubtit 4y ago
> The goal of this tool is to help improve GNOME, by providing data that can inform design decisions, [...] I suppose that collecting data about Gnome configurations will provide data just marginally useful to inform design decisions. Anecdotal point: last month I installed Debian+Gnome on my father's new laptop. He's a retiree, and not a all a techie. He wasn't thrilled with the textless icons on the left but thought that even if he could not get used to tell them apart, he could always rely on their hover info. But he really wanted a direct access to the handful of documents he regularly opens (mostly texts). Of course, he needed links/bookmarks that showed the name of the files. I couldn't find a way to do this with the default Gnome. I tried for an hour to make it work with an extension supposed to enable desktop icons, but failed (extension broken with Gnome4?). I installed Mate instead of Gnome, and that's it. My conclusion: Gnome is too simple, it lacks features even for old noobs, and even more for power users.
- ReactiveJelly 4y ago
  I don't know how anybody gets on without text. I see coworkers who have a default Windows 10 setup, with the titles of windows hidden. They'll have 10+ Chrome windows open, 5+ spreadsheets, and then each Chrome window has 20 tabs in it. And despite all that, they still don't think to do "Open Link in New Tab", and they lose track of where they are in our web app. Maybe I should add breadcrumb nav. And of course, window management is rare. Maximize everything, even terminals. Maybe people really do have fundamentally different brains from each other. Maybe they memorize the positions of the icons and get by. I have to have text, and I bookmark and close tabs aggressively to keep it all clean.
  - rcxdude 4y ago
    > Maybe people really do have fundamentally different brains from each other I think this is a big thing. People have vastly different approaches to interacting with a UI, especially one they use everyday, and it's foolish to think there's a good one-size-fits-all approach. See this article for a good example of bad data-driven thinking of this sort which can happen in a field we can objectively measure (or the 80/20 rule, where 80% of users only use 20% of features in a product. Problem being they all use a different 20% of features): https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...
ceronman 4y ago
In a world where almost all software companies keep pushing telemetry behind our backs, trying to grab as much information about us as they can. It's nice to see a project like Gnome doing the right thing making telemetry fully voluntary and anonymising the data completely. We understand that software projects need telemetry to improve, but that's no excuse to sneakily steal information about us. Well done Gnome!
- ReactiveJelly 4y ago
  I appreciate that about VLC too, with its famous "Let VLC connect to the Internet?" first-run dialog. Element I _think_ is also opt-in. Also, for whoever is reading and might need to hear it, "Opted in by default" is called "opt-out".
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    That dialog is nice in intention but they should really simplify it. <Explanatory text> <Button: Skip background network access -> <Button: Use VLC with network access for media metadata ->
- jrm4 4y ago
  Eh. I'm reminded of Chris Rock's bit on "I take care of my kids!" Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. How about also playing nice in return when it comes to the actual product?
pjmlp 4y ago
No need for a tool, it is quite easy. Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. Don't outsource basic features to extensions, or third party tools. Bring basic stuff like thumbnails and desktop folders back.
- bezier-curve 4y ago
  > Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. This is one of the things I like about GNOME. There is something to be said about a tech stack that's accessible and easy enough to use.
  - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
    Yes, that's one thing they got right. More developer accessibility got them more popularity, although it'd be hard for me to quantify it but I definitely see that as one of the factors.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Compiled languages are accessible.
- kramerger 4y ago
  Basically 1. Don't remove stuff people use 2. Don't add stuff nobody wants
  - squarefoot 4y ago
    3. Don't assume everyone is using a tablet.
- 3836293648 4y ago
  Gnome removing desktop icons was amazing. Stopping average users from hurting themselves is a good thing, especially when they're still there for the advanced users that are dumb enough to still want them
  - 4y ago
bxparks 4y ago
I used to use GNOME for many years, mostly because it was the default on Ubuntu. Now it's one of my least favorite desktops, I'll use almost anything else. I got frustrated at the seemingly random, user-hostile, backwards-incompatible changes from one version to the next. From my rough memory: * The desktop icons and click-and-drag shortcuts got removed a few years ago. This is a GUI workflow that I've been using on Windows, MacOS, Atari OS, Amiga OS, going back to the 1980s. Gone. * They somehow obscured the sleep (or was it the shutdown) button in one version, so that I couldn't find it anymore. I think I had to search the internets for this basic functionality. * I think one version of Ubuntu GNOME obscured the login screen. I installed it, saw no login screen, clicked everywhere, but nothing happened. Just stared at a desktop wallpaper. If I recall, I eventually figured out that I had to swipe up a little arrow at the bottom of the screen, but using a mouse. Why? * I think there is still no image preview in their file explorer. I don't know, I don't use it anymore. These days, I use Ubuntu MATE or Mint MATE, and occasionally drop into Mint Cinnamon to check if they squashed enough little UI bugs for me to use as daily driver. (For example, in the latest Mint Cinnamon, I set my Terminal to 161 columns. But Cinnamon would open the window at Full Screen instead. Oops, back to Mint MATE.)
- afiori 4y ago
  > I eventually figured out that I had to swipe up a little arrow at the bottom of the screen, but using a mouse. Why? Forced swipes are one of the most disgusting feature ever; they are always configured with some kind of inertial threshold so that you need to do the exact movement the designer expected. On touchscreen they are even worse as sometimes if you are holding the device in an unusual way or have a cover that slightly blocks the side of the screen the "correct" movement can be impossible. Apparently Windows 10 briefly experimented with forcing them for the login (click, enter, and any other key would do nothing), but it has not happened in a while.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Lockscreen clicks are also incredibly annoying. I'm left handed and often use my mouse left handed with the clicks swapped. If you do this in software on something like Windows/MacOS then it uses the "default" click setup even if you're logged in and the only user on the system. So I will sit there and right click while it's looking for a left click because that's the "default". It's incredibly dumb. Most Linux DEs/login managers are like this too although you have more control over the software so it's possible to swap at boot at a lower level. I've given up swapping clicks in software and now buy more expensive mice that have the option in hardware.
supernes 4y ago
I wanted to help, but this tool doesn't collect any useful data IMO. Just queries the distribution, installed apps and the default browser. Full list here: https://gitlab.gnome.org/vstanek/gnome-info-collect/#client-collected-information https://gitlab.gnome.org/vstanek/gnome-info-collect/#client-... I don't see how this would actually help improve the parts of GNOME that need improvement.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  It collects plenty of useful information for directing effort. Plenty of Gnome's online account information stuff gets analysed and the installed extension are queried. If the Gnome devs see that a particular extension is installed often (i.e. GsConnect, a sound output chooser that's actually useful, etc.) then they might build that feature into the system directly so users don't need extensions any more. I'm sure they can collect more information if they want to but I don't know if that information would actually be useful to the Gnome team at this point. I'm guessing they're looking for very specific things to optimize for (i.e. Flatpak support, hardware support, extensions everyone uses to compensate for missing features).
  - supernes 4y ago
    It does seem focused on apps and extensions, but they can already get that data for the latter from the extensions portal (both popularity and actual installs). And the installed app stat is questionable, because it doesn't include any usage information. I just think they could have gone way broader with the set of reported data, and the people willing to help wouldn't mind.
  - 3836293648 4y ago
    Sound input finally got useful in GNOME 43
vbezhenar 4y ago
One big thing that gnome did wrong is empty top bar. So much space wasted. Should be task bar instead.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  Which also doesn't work with system tray icons. (Although it's possible to install extensions which allow these).
ho_schi 4y ago
Done that already a week ago! I not familiar with Python but the code is terse and looks fine and the information the collect looks reasonable.
jrm4 4y ago
No. Gnome does not deserve this help. No one should "Help Gnome" because Gnome, too much, actively breaks backward (and perhaps "cross wm") compatibility. Help the ones that play nice with others, instead.
rcarmo 4y ago
I've recently moved to GNOME on Fedora 36, and I just wish they stopped being hostile to themeing. No, Adwaita is not pretty. No, I don't want to use the default window decorations. And I most certainly do not want to have to install extensions to have a decent dock, proper top bar applets, etc. I have no idea where GNOME gets its UX expertise, but they are well off the mark where it regards what people expect from a normal desktop experience these days.
- Octabrain 4y ago
  Well, question of taste. I use Fedora 36 with Gnome precisely because I like the provided vanilla experience. I enjoy its simplicity, minimalism and it is nice looking enough for me for not having to spend time on tuning anything.
  - rcarmo 4y ago
    Mine now looks mostly like this, so that I don't have to re-learn UI conventions: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/02/2130 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/02/2130
    - Octabrain 4y ago
      It looks good, however, it is not for me. On that specific example, I dislike the idea of the window buttons on the left as well as the dock. I find much productive to press the window key and type the app I want to open as I do on Gnome. I used to be a big fan of KDE back in the day and spend plenty of time installing desktop and icon themes, but nowadays I like to stick to "out of the box" experiences and I apply this to everything in computing, from the distro I use, to tmux, vim, web browser etc.
    - woojoo666 4y ago
      This looks exactly like MacOS though. If you like the ux/ui of MacOS that's fine, but I still don't see any reason why you say gnome devs are off the mark in terms of UX. For the record, I prefer keeping the dock out of view and pulling it up with the super key
drumhead 4y ago
I read the headline and thought, is this a change of heart from the Gnome team, then I read the article. Yes, it was too good to be true.
thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
GNOME 3+ is confusing and difficult to use. Many of the design decisions are strange and break GUI conventions that have been around for decades. I have tried to understand and use GNOME 3+, but it is utterly frustrating and does not work for me. I have to use GNOME 3+ at work because RHEL is the blessed Linux distribution and IT does not allow EPEL / third-party package repos that are not strictly required for business purposes. RHEL 8 removed all desktop environment choices except GNOME 3, so every day is frustrating. I would rather have a Windows desktop and just SSH into a RHEL machine, so I don't have to use the GNOME GUI, but IT does not have extra computers to hand out.
- dark-star 4y ago
  My experience is pretty much the same. This is nothing new, too, since I have been using Gnome on and off since about 20 years ago. From confusing UI dialogs or elements, to the continuous reduction of changeable settings (and replacement of those by some dubious defaults), almost everything makes me think that even Windows 11 has a better UI/UX than Gnome On my personal laptop I switched from Xfce to KDE a while ago and never looked back. The experience is just so much better IMHO
lutoma 4y ago
Personally I really like the GNOME UX. I was very skeptical when I tried it for the first time a year or so ago, but after a while of using it, it just started to make sense and really feels like a coherent system rather than the cobbled-together messes that most other Linux desktops (and Windows) are.
blueflow 4y ago
I found the UX of GNOME very inspiring. After a set of innovative changes around 2015 i switched to the i3 window manager, passed its learning curve and now i am a happy user of a stable, constant desktop experience for over 6 years now.
herbst 4y ago
I love gnome. I don't understand why people prefer the win95 environment over everything but every desktop experience basically felt the same since then. Even Mac didn't feel intuitive at all to me. Gnome however (I mean gnome, not whatever Ubuntu ships) removed all the unecessary things and made sure that whatever I need it's just a tab away. Nothing is intrusive or annoying, it's so out of your way that everything else I've tried the past years feels 'in your face' and constant diversion.
havblue 4y ago
The poor use of screen real estate doesn't do it for me: there's a large top panel displaying some system icons but a lot of empty space. On the large bottom panel you can at least select your active window like in the Windows 95 days. So that isn't so bad. You also can't drag these bars around the screen and I don't see any easy way to customize it. It's like the message is: you're mostly using the terminal anyway and who cares, it's running in a vm. But your customer isn't going to complain and we're the defacto standard so leave us alone, you're welcome.
thebeardisred 4y ago
In the words of Bartleby the Scrivener... "I'd prefer not to..." I've spent years fighting through many small cuts, many of which are focused around the opinionation of GNOME developers. Plenty of issues around the screenshot tools, the dumbing down of settings around wireless and/or networking configuration.

46 points by blueant 4y ago

Sorry, I think it's too late. It may have become a good (albeit dumbed down and resource hungry) UI for tablets, but in the process you left out desktop/laptops PCs, and lots of people moved away because of this.

pmontra 4y ago

> sudo snap install --classic gnome-info-collect I was tempted to install it but it's a snap on Ubuntu. I don't really like that Canonical is pushing snap so much. Hopefully it will go the way of Unity but it will take too long for me. I'm considering to switch to a different distribution, Debian derived.

rhamzeh 4y ago
I faced the same dilemma. I despise snap. I wanted something Debian based too, but I ended up biting the bullet and crossing over to Fedora Silverblue - it's different than the normal Fedora builds, in it's intentional design for Flatpaks + Podman being the core and minimizing system wide installations. It worked really well for me, and somehow even better system support* than I had with Ubuntu, something I didn't think was possible. * Better system support: as in 0 issues sleeping/waking from sleep, reading from fingerprint reader, connecting to bluetooth, switching sound output, connecting controllers, and switching between different multi monitor setups. I mean Ubuntu was great, miles better than my work provided Macbook Pro (that is a study in frustration), but the Fedora Silverblue installation ups the ante, pure gnome is also slightly better than Ubuntu's tweaks.

ropeladder 4y ago

Asking for help by submitting your data, instead of contributing or actually having any deliberate influence over the project, is a bit on the nose for a desktop environment so famous for its "my way or the highway" approach.

lawgimenez 4y ago
Same. I thought they open sourced something.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nix23 4y ago

hericium 4y ago

idoubtit 4y ago

> The goal of this tool is to help improve GNOME, by providing data that can inform design decisions, [...] I suppose that collecting data about Gnome configurations will provide data just marginally useful to inform design decisions. Anecdotal point: last month I installed Debian+Gnome on my father's new laptop. He's a retiree, and not a all a techie. He wasn't thrilled with the textless icons on the left but thought that even if he could not get used to tell them apart, he could always rely on their hover info. But he really wanted a direct access to the handful of documents he regularly opens (mostly texts). Of course, he needed links/bookmarks that showed the name of the files. I couldn't find a way to do this with the default Gnome. I tried for an hour to make it work with an extension supposed to enable desktop icons, but failed (extension broken with Gnome4?). I installed Mate instead of Gnome, and that's it. My conclusion: Gnome is too simple, it lacks features even for old noobs, and even more for power users.

ReactiveJelly 4y ago
I don't know how anybody gets on without text. I see coworkers who have a default Windows 10 setup, with the titles of windows hidden. They'll have 10+ Chrome windows open, 5+ spreadsheets, and then each Chrome window has 20 tabs in it. And despite all that, they still don't think to do "Open Link in New Tab", and they lose track of where they are in our web app. Maybe I should add breadcrumb nav. And of course, window management is rare. Maximize everything, even terminals. Maybe people really do have fundamentally different brains from each other. Maybe they memorize the positions of the icons and get by. I have to have text, and I bookmark and close tabs aggressively to keep it all clean.
- rcxdude 4y ago
  > Maybe people really do have fundamentally different brains from each other I think this is a big thing. People have vastly different approaches to interacting with a UI, especially one they use everyday, and it's foolish to think there's a good one-size-fits-all approach. See this article for a good example of bad data-driven thinking of this sort which can happen in a field we can objectively measure (or the 80/20 rule, where 80% of users only use 20% of features in a product. Problem being they all use a different 20% of features): https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...

ceronman 4y ago

In a world where almost all software companies keep pushing telemetry behind our backs, trying to grab as much information about us as they can. It's nice to see a project like Gnome doing the right thing making telemetry fully voluntary and anonymising the data completely. We understand that software projects need telemetry to improve, but that's no excuse to sneakily steal information about us. Well done Gnome!

ReactiveJelly 4y ago
I appreciate that about VLC too, with its famous "Let VLC connect to the Internet?" first-run dialog. Element I _think_ is also opt-in. Also, for whoever is reading and might need to hear it, "Opted in by default" is called "opt-out".
- kzrdude 4y ago
  That dialog is nice in intention but they should really simplify it. <Explanatory text> <Button: Skip background network access -> <Button: Use VLC with network access for media metadata ->
jrm4 4y ago
Eh. I'm reminded of Chris Rock's bit on "I take care of my kids!" Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. How about also playing nice in return when it comes to the actual product?

pjmlp 4y ago

No need for a tool, it is quite easy. Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. Don't outsource basic features to extensions, or third party tools. Bring basic stuff like thumbnails and desktop folders back.

bezier-curve 4y ago
> Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. This is one of the things I like about GNOME. There is something to be said about a tech stack that's accessible and easy enough to use.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  Yes, that's one thing they got right. More developer accessibility got them more popularity, although it'd be hard for me to quantify it but I definitely see that as one of the factors.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Compiled languages are accessible.
kramerger 4y ago
Basically 1. Don't remove stuff people use 2. Don't add stuff nobody wants
- squarefoot 4y ago
  3. Don't assume everyone is using a tablet.
3836293648 4y ago
Gnome removing desktop icons was amazing. Stopping average users from hurting themselves is a good thing, especially when they're still there for the advanced users that are dumb enough to still want them
- 4y ago

bxparks 4y ago

I used to use GNOME for many years, mostly because it was the default on Ubuntu. Now it's one of my least favorite desktops, I'll use almost anything else. I got frustrated at the seemingly random, user-hostile, backwards-incompatible changes from one version to the next. From my rough memory: * The desktop icons and click-and-drag shortcuts got removed a few years ago. This is a GUI workflow that I've been using on Windows, MacOS, Atari OS, Amiga OS, going back to the 1980s. Gone. * They somehow obscured the sleep (or was it the shutdown) button in one version, so that I couldn't find it anymore. I think I had to search the internets for this basic functionality. * I think one version of Ubuntu GNOME obscured the login screen. I installed it, saw no login screen, clicked everywhere, but nothing happened. Just stared at a desktop wallpaper. If I recall, I eventually figured out that I had to swipe up a little arrow at the bottom of the screen, but using a mouse. Why? * I think there is still no image preview in their file explorer. I don't know, I don't use it anymore. These days, I use Ubuntu MATE or Mint MATE, and occasionally drop into Mint Cinnamon to check if they squashed enough little UI bugs for me to use as daily driver. (For example, in the latest Mint Cinnamon, I set my Terminal to 161 columns. But Cinnamon would open the window at Full Screen instead. Oops, back to Mint MATE.)

afiori 4y ago
> I eventually figured out that I had to swipe up a little arrow at the bottom of the screen, but using a mouse. Why? Forced swipes are one of the most disgusting feature ever; they are always configured with some kind of inertial threshold so that you need to do the exact movement the designer expected. On touchscreen they are even worse as sometimes if you are holding the device in an unusual way or have a cover that slightly blocks the side of the screen the "correct" movement can be impossible. Apparently Windows 10 briefly experimented with forcing them for the login (click, enter, and any other key would do nothing), but it has not happened in a while.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Lockscreen clicks are also incredibly annoying. I'm left handed and often use my mouse left handed with the clicks swapped. If you do this in software on something like Windows/MacOS then it uses the "default" click setup even if you're logged in and the only user on the system. So I will sit there and right click while it's looking for a left click because that's the "default". It's incredibly dumb. Most Linux DEs/login managers are like this too although you have more control over the software so it's possible to swap at boot at a lower level. I've given up swapping clicks in software and now buy more expensive mice that have the option in hardware.

supernes 4y ago

I wanted to help, but this tool doesn't collect any useful data IMO. Just queries the distribution, installed apps and the default browser. Full list here: https://gitlab.gnome.org/vstanek/gnome-info-collect/#client-collected-information https://gitlab.gnome.org/vstanek/gnome-info-collect/#client-... I don't see how this would actually help improve the parts of GNOME that need improvement.

jeroenhd 4y ago
It collects plenty of useful information for directing effort. Plenty of Gnome's online account information stuff gets analysed and the installed extension are queried. If the Gnome devs see that a particular extension is installed often (i.e. GsConnect, a sound output chooser that's actually useful, etc.) then they might build that feature into the system directly so users don't need extensions any more. I'm sure they can collect more information if they want to but I don't know if that information would actually be useful to the Gnome team at this point. I'm guessing they're looking for very specific things to optimize for (i.e. Flatpak support, hardware support, extensions everyone uses to compensate for missing features).
- supernes 4y ago
  It does seem focused on apps and extensions, but they can already get that data for the latter from the extensions portal (both popularity and actual installs). And the installed app stat is questionable, because it doesn't include any usage information. I just think they could have gone way broader with the set of reported data, and the people willing to help wouldn't mind.
- 3836293648 4y ago
  Sound input finally got useful in GNOME 43

vbezhenar 4y ago

One big thing that gnome did wrong is empty top bar. So much space wasted. Should be task bar instead.

rgoulter 4y ago
Which also doesn't work with system tray icons. (Although it's possible to install extensions which allow these).

ho_schi 4y ago

Done that already a week ago! I not familiar with Python but the code is terse and looks fine and the information the collect looks reasonable.

jrm4 4y ago

No. Gnome does not deserve this help. No one should "Help Gnome" because Gnome, too much, actively breaks backward (and perhaps "cross wm") compatibility. Help the ones that play nice with others, instead.

rcarmo 4y ago

I've recently moved to GNOME on Fedora 36, and I just wish they stopped being hostile to themeing. No, Adwaita is not pretty. No, I don't want to use the default window decorations. And I most certainly do not want to have to install extensions to have a decent dock, proper top bar applets, etc. I have no idea where GNOME gets its UX expertise, but they are well off the mark where it regards what people expect from a normal desktop experience these days.

Octabrain 4y ago
Well, question of taste. I use Fedora 36 with Gnome precisely because I like the provided vanilla experience. I enjoy its simplicity, minimalism and it is nice looking enough for me for not having to spend time on tuning anything.
- rcarmo 4y ago
  Mine now looks mostly like this, so that I don't have to re-learn UI conventions: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/02/2130 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/02/2130
  - Octabrain 4y ago
    It looks good, however, it is not for me. On that specific example, I dislike the idea of the window buttons on the left as well as the dock. I find much productive to press the window key and type the app I want to open as I do on Gnome. I used to be a big fan of KDE back in the day and spend plenty of time installing desktop and icon themes, but nowadays I like to stick to "out of the box" experiences and I apply this to everything in computing, from the distro I use, to tmux, vim, web browser etc.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    This looks exactly like MacOS though. If you like the ux/ui of MacOS that's fine, but I still don't see any reason why you say gnome devs are off the mark in terms of UX. For the record, I prefer keeping the dock out of view and pulling it up with the super key

drumhead 4y ago

I read the headline and thought, is this a change of heart from the Gnome team, then I read the article. Yes, it was too good to be true.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago

GNOME 3+ is confusing and difficult to use. Many of the design decisions are strange and break GUI conventions that have been around for decades. I have tried to understand and use GNOME 3+, but it is utterly frustrating and does not work for me. I have to use GNOME 3+ at work because RHEL is the blessed Linux distribution and IT does not allow EPEL / third-party package repos that are not strictly required for business purposes. RHEL 8 removed all desktop environment choices except GNOME 3, so every day is frustrating. I would rather have a Windows desktop and just SSH into a RHEL machine, so I don't have to use the GNOME GUI, but IT does not have extra computers to hand out.

dark-star 4y ago
My experience is pretty much the same. This is nothing new, too, since I have been using Gnome on and off since about 20 years ago. From confusing UI dialogs or elements, to the continuous reduction of changeable settings (and replacement of those by some dubious defaults), almost everything makes me think that even Windows 11 has a better UI/UX than Gnome On my personal laptop I switched from Xfce to KDE a while ago and never looked back. The experience is just so much better IMHO

lutoma 4y ago

Personally I really like the GNOME UX. I was very skeptical when I tried it for the first time a year or so ago, but after a while of using it, it just started to make sense and really feels like a coherent system rather than the cobbled-together messes that most other Linux desktops (and Windows) are.

blueflow 4y ago

I found the UX of GNOME very inspiring. After a set of innovative changes around 2015 i switched to the i3 window manager, passed its learning curve and now i am a happy user of a stable, constant desktop experience for over 6 years now.

herbst 4y ago

I love gnome. I don't understand why people prefer the win95 environment over everything but every desktop experience basically felt the same since then. Even Mac didn't feel intuitive at all to me. Gnome however (I mean gnome, not whatever Ubuntu ships) removed all the unecessary things and made sure that whatever I need it's just a tab away. Nothing is intrusive or annoying, it's so out of your way that everything else I've tried the past years feels 'in your face' and constant diversion.

havblue 4y ago

The poor use of screen real estate doesn't do it for me: there's a large top panel displaying some system icons but a lot of empty space. On the large bottom panel you can at least select your active window like in the Windows 95 days. So that isn't so bad. You also can't drag these bars around the screen and I don't see any easy way to customize it. It's like the message is: you're mostly using the terminal anyway and who cares, it's running in a vm. But your customer isn't going to complain and we're the defacto standard so leave us alone, you're welcome.

thebeardisred 4y ago

In the words of Bartleby the Scrivener... "I'd prefer not to..." I've spent years fighting through many small cuts, many of which are focused around the opinionation of GNOME developers. Plenty of issues around the screenshot tools, the dumbing down of settings around wireless and/or networking configuration.