5 ms·

The egg_irl post you picked. Sigh. Picking apart meme content and comments is stupid. But sure, lets do this to support this 'child grooming' nonsense transphob

The egg_irl post you picked. Sigh. Picking apart meme content and comments is stupid. But sure, lets do this to support this 'child grooming' nonsense transphobic discussion. What you're criticizing isn't someone making a major life decision based on feedback from internet strangers. Its a person who has made a major life decision reflecting and joking about the experience in a space assumed to be for trans people trying to deal with (via jokes and memes) the overwhelming hatred they've dealt with. A) this is clearly a stupid meme post that IN THE MEME itself indicates the person is no longer 16 (in fact if you look at post history they're now at college so > 18). B) was responded to with a meme in an of itself. The idea of an LGBTQ+ pipeline is well known to LGBTQ+ people. Yes they'll make fun of it in response to a meme post. In ACTUAL discussion, they will earnestly discuss that transitioning isn't for everyone; don't stop because of other people, but also if you're not comfortable or transitioning isn't make you happy, you learned something about yourself (you might not be trans). But to put a fine point on it: Telling children that they have options for self-expression besides the default gender binary isn't child-grooming. Full stop. And in marginalized communities, you may only have internet strangers to deal with (if your family/friends or local community have no safe spaces). Obviously, for such a large decision you should be working with a therapist (if there's a non-transphobic therapist in your area AND you can afford it/its available) to work through this rather than internet strangers; and that is OFTEN discussed. No one is under the impression that these are small decisions. They're just demanding that they be understood as VALID decisions. But to boil down a trans-support group (with your 'I call it how I see it'/'won't somebody think of the children' type bullshit) as 'castrating young people' means that you're not as logical / unbiased as you think you are, you clearly DON'T know what you're talking about, AND, as the OP stated, you are transphobic.

TurkishPoptart 4y ago
Whether or not this is considered "grooming" is irrelevant. The truth is that only in the past 4-5 years has it started becoming commonplace for the medical establishment to provide "gender-affirming" care (aka irreversible via surgery or puberty blockers), if my child has the slightest suspicion that they, too, are one of the tiny percentage of intersex/trans people. And if that were the case, and I refused to recognize one of my child's weekly fantasies (he likes to pretend to be a cat, but we don't take _that_ seriously), I would be considered a toxic and "transphobic" parent. That these medical procedures and gender "counseling" could provided to my child without my input or approval (in the name of "safe spaces") should be alarming to most parents. We need to understand what's going on in our schools and with our children before we smear people with this "transphobia" neologism, because it's not productive nor conducive to discussion. [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317 https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  I too worry about the trend of pushing children too soon into transgenderism and especially chemical induced changes. OTOH, calling it grooming is out of line and I personally get really tired of people trying to appropriate negative words to further their own personal agenda. It's possible to disagree without calling it grooming. If this is grooming, then so is teaching a child that loyalty and trustworthiness are important. It's grooming in only the most technical sense, which is not what that word means in common vernacular. The people involved in this are earnest in wanting to prevent harm (albeit misguided imo), an actual groomer is someone who is purposefully shaping a person so as to __cause__ harm.
- hemogloben 4y ago
  > Whether or not this is considered "grooming" is irrelevant. It isn't irrelevant if people are using the word grooming to sensationalize the discussion and bias it towards being terrified of the 'trans epidemic/agenda'. > if my child has the slightest suspicion that they, too, are one of the tiny percentage of intersex/trans people That is not how any of this works. Someone doesn't go on puberty blockers or get Hormone Therapy because they have 'the slightest suspicion'. If you say to a Dr "I think I might be trans", they don't schedule you for any gender-affirming care. They'd refer you to a therapist so you can work through that (and no, the therapist isn't going to talk you INTO being trans, again, not how that works, far more likely to try to talk you OUT of being trans). > And if that were the case, and I refused to recognize one of my child's weekly fantasies (he likes to pretend to be a cat, but we don't take _that_ seriously) Pretending to be a cat and being trans are not comparable. I would hope as a parent you can distinguish between these weekly fantasies and serious thoughts, feelings, and questions that your child is having about who they are. > I would be considered a toxic and "transphobic" parent Yeah... If your kid tells you something big (and potentially to them shameful/scary) about themselves (whatever it is) and you brush it off, that would be kind of toxic and shitty. > That these medical procedures and gender "counseling" could provided to my child without my input or approval (in the name of "safe spaces") should be alarming to most parents. In all states, minors who seek transgender treatment need parental consent. > We need to understand what's going on in our schools and with our children before we smear people with this "transphobia" neologism, because it's not productive nor conducive to discussion. I agree that this is a complex topic that requires us to have thoughtful in depth discussions, one way to do that is to stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt you pulled from a book full of cherry-picked anecdotal stories designed to spread FUD.
unethical_ban 4y ago
I don't see how it's "transphobic" to acknowledge that transitioning is an attempted solution to a mental disorder that we should not be appearing to encourage people in. There is a difference between being accepting, kind, and equal in treatment towards trans people, and encouraging it with young people. It really is a different subject than "mere" sexuality.
- hemogloben 4y ago
  > transitioning is an attempted solution to a mental disorder It is not a mental disorder, APA updated guidance and removed it from the DSM in 2012[1]. Though gender dysphoria caused by being trans is. That's an important distinction; you aren't trans because something is wrong with you and being trans isn't something that's wrong with you. > that we should not be appearing to encourage people in. Is being trans something that can be encouraged in non-trans people? Not a single cis person that I know (when asked) has ever said they'd thought they might be a different gender. Didn't even cross their minds. And after being asked about it for 2 seconds they all instantly responded "no, definitely NOT trans", without hesitation. > There is a difference between being accepting, kind, and equal in treatment towards trans people, and encouraging it with young people. I appreciate that you emphasized accepting, kind, and equal in treatment here. But a few thoughts: - When does a person go from encourage-able young person to fully fledged trans-person? Who draws that line? - This sounds a bit like making young trans people go through a discouraging crucible and if they grow up to be trans it must be true. Which just sounds like a way to guarantee that trans people have terrible child hoods. - Despite your phrasing, in the context of the rest of your post, it sounds more like you're willing to humor trans-people than truly considering them valid. (If I'm wrong, sorry and ignore) If that's the case, thank you for prioritizing treating people well, but trans people are valid. They don't need people to humor them, they need people to just believe what they say about their own bodies. 1. https://nicic.gov/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorder-apa-2012 https://nicic.gov/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorde...

TurkishPoptart 4y ago

Whether or not this is considered "grooming" is irrelevant. The truth is that only in the past 4-5 years has it started becoming commonplace for the medical establishment to provide "gender-affirming" care (aka irreversible via surgery or puberty blockers), if my child has the slightest suspicion that they, too, are one of the tiny percentage of intersex/trans people. And if that were the case, and I refused to recognize one of my child's weekly fantasies (he likes to pretend to be a cat, but we don't take _that_ seriously), I would be considered a toxic and "transphobic" parent. That these medical procedures and gender "counseling" could provided to my child without my input or approval (in the name of "safe spaces") should be alarming to most parents. We need to understand what's going on in our schools and with our children before we smear people with this "transphobia" neologism, because it's not productive nor conducive to discussion. [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317 https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
I too worry about the trend of pushing children too soon into transgenderism and especially chemical induced changes. OTOH, calling it grooming is out of line and I personally get really tired of people trying to appropriate negative words to further their own personal agenda. It's possible to disagree without calling it grooming. If this is grooming, then so is teaching a child that loyalty and trustworthiness are important. It's grooming in only the most technical sense, which is not what that word means in common vernacular. The people involved in this are earnest in wanting to prevent harm (albeit misguided imo), an actual groomer is someone who is purposefully shaping a person so as to __cause__ harm.
hemogloben 4y ago
> Whether or not this is considered "grooming" is irrelevant. It isn't irrelevant if people are using the word grooming to sensationalize the discussion and bias it towards being terrified of the 'trans epidemic/agenda'. > if my child has the slightest suspicion that they, too, are one of the tiny percentage of intersex/trans people That is not how any of this works. Someone doesn't go on puberty blockers or get Hormone Therapy because they have 'the slightest suspicion'. If you say to a Dr "I think I might be trans", they don't schedule you for any gender-affirming care. They'd refer you to a therapist so you can work through that (and no, the therapist isn't going to talk you INTO being trans, again, not how that works, far more likely to try to talk you OUT of being trans). > And if that were the case, and I refused to recognize one of my child's weekly fantasies (he likes to pretend to be a cat, but we don't take _that_ seriously) Pretending to be a cat and being trans are not comparable. I would hope as a parent you can distinguish between these weekly fantasies and serious thoughts, feelings, and questions that your child is having about who they are. > I would be considered a toxic and "transphobic" parent Yeah... If your kid tells you something big (and potentially to them shameful/scary) about themselves (whatever it is) and you brush it off, that would be kind of toxic and shitty. > That these medical procedures and gender "counseling" could provided to my child without my input or approval (in the name of "safe spaces") should be alarming to most parents. In all states, minors who seek transgender treatment need parental consent. > We need to understand what's going on in our schools and with our children before we smear people with this "transphobia" neologism, because it's not productive nor conducive to discussion. I agree that this is a complex topic that requires us to have thoughtful in depth discussions, one way to do that is to stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt you pulled from a book full of cherry-picked anecdotal stories designed to spread FUD.

unethical_ban 4y ago

I don't see how it's "transphobic" to acknowledge that transitioning is an attempted solution to a mental disorder that we should not be appearing to encourage people in. There is a difference between being accepting, kind, and equal in treatment towards trans people, and encouraging it with young people. It really is a different subject than "mere" sexuality.

hemogloben 4y ago
> transitioning is an attempted solution to a mental disorder It is not a mental disorder, APA updated guidance and removed it from the DSM in 2012[1]. Though gender dysphoria caused by being trans is. That's an important distinction; you aren't trans because something is wrong with you and being trans isn't something that's wrong with you. > that we should not be appearing to encourage people in. Is being trans something that can be encouraged in non-trans people? Not a single cis person that I know (when asked) has ever said they'd thought they might be a different gender. Didn't even cross their minds. And after being asked about it for 2 seconds they all instantly responded "no, definitely NOT trans", without hesitation. > There is a difference between being accepting, kind, and equal in treatment towards trans people, and encouraging it with young people. I appreciate that you emphasized accepting, kind, and equal in treatment here. But a few thoughts: - When does a person go from encourage-able young person to fully fledged trans-person? Who draws that line? - This sounds a bit like making young trans people go through a discouraging crucible and if they grow up to be trans it must be true. Which just sounds like a way to guarantee that trans people have terrible child hoods. - Despite your phrasing, in the context of the rest of your post, it sounds more like you're willing to humor trans-people than truly considering them valid. (If I'm wrong, sorry and ignore) If that's the case, thank you for prioritizing treating people well, but trans people are valid. They don't need people to humor them, they need people to just believe what they say about their own bodies. 1. https://nicic.gov/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorder-apa-2012 https://nicic.gov/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorde...