6 ms·

Small semantic issue, but “make peace with Russia” implies they’re not the aggressors. Russia can end this tomorrow, by withdrawing from Ukraine. You probably

Small semantic issue, but “make peace with Russia” implies they’re not the aggressors. Russia can end this tomorrow, by withdrawing from Ukraine. You probably didn’t mean to imply anything, but it’s a sensitive topic, semantics matter.

randomdata 4y ago
Per the discussion, it only ends once sanctions are lifted, and that requires a willingness from "us" to make peace with Russia. If there is feelings of spitefulness for what they did the sanctions could continue even after Russia pulls out.
- NotTameAntelope 4y ago
  > and that requires a willingness from "us" to make peace with Russia This is false. It requires a willingness from Russia to stop invading Ukraine. What you're writing here is appeasement, and it it's a very bad idea both generally and specifically with regards to global economic stability.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > What you're writing here is appeasement Yes, Russia can attempt appeasement by leaving Ukraine, but we have to accept that gesture for peace to be made. There is no reason why we have to lift sanctions just because they tried to appease us. We probably would for a number of reasons, but we don't have to make peace if we don't want to.
    - NotTameAntelope 4y ago
      What? No, Ukraine and the Western world would be the ones participating in appeasement, not Russia. In your mind, how justified is Russia in this conflict?
      - randomdata 4y ago
        No, Russia would have to appease the West to see sanctions lifted. If the sanctions were lifted first to please Russia, what motivation would Russia have to leave Ukraine?
        NotTameAntelope 4y ago
        What is your opinion on whether or not Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine? Because nobody here is talking about lifting the sanctions to please Russia, Russia would have to stop invading Ukraine, which is explicitly not "Appeasement"[0] considering they're the aggressor and the ones creating the conflict. The only way you could see Russia as not the aggressor here is if you think Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
        randomdata 4y ago
        > Because nobody here is talking about lifting the sanctions to please Russia Right, as the ball is in Russia's court to appease the West to see them lifted, and so what political, material, or territorial concessions are being made by the West to avoid conflict? In reality, Russia is the one who must concede on Ukrainian territory for sanctions to be lifted. > The only way you could see Russia as not the aggressor here is if you think Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine... This is a logical fallacy. One's feelings towards the matter have absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand.
        NotTameAntelope 4y ago
        What is your opinion on whether or not Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine?
        randomdata 4y ago
        Not really my area of expertise. Any opinions I have would be pure tribalism, which is rather meaningless, and completely off-topic. I came into a discussion about the use of language, not geopolitical relations. What was wrong with the original subject that you feel the need to change it?
troon-lover 4y ago
patrick451 4y ago
I don't care about Ukraine nor who started it. It's none of our business. What I do care about is the supply chain going back to normal. Let's make peace with Russia.

randomdata 4y ago

Per the discussion, it only ends once sanctions are lifted, and that requires a willingness from "us" to make peace with Russia. If there is feelings of spitefulness for what they did the sanctions could continue even after Russia pulls out.

NotTameAntelope 4y ago
> and that requires a willingness from "us" to make peace with Russia This is false. It requires a willingness from Russia to stop invading Ukraine. What you're writing here is appeasement, and it it's a very bad idea both generally and specifically with regards to global economic stability.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > What you're writing here is appeasement Yes, Russia can attempt appeasement by leaving Ukraine, but we have to accept that gesture for peace to be made. There is no reason why we have to lift sanctions just because they tried to appease us. We probably would for a number of reasons, but we don't have to make peace if we don't want to.
  - NotTameAntelope 4y ago
    What? No, Ukraine and the Western world would be the ones participating in appeasement, not Russia. In your mind, how justified is Russia in this conflict?
    - randomdata 4y ago
      No, Russia would have to appease the West to see sanctions lifted. If the sanctions were lifted first to please Russia, what motivation would Russia have to leave Ukraine?
      - NotTameAntelope 4y ago
        What is your opinion on whether or not Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine? Because nobody here is talking about lifting the sanctions to please Russia, Russia would have to stop invading Ukraine, which is explicitly not "Appeasement"[0] considering they're the aggressor and the ones creating the conflict. The only way you could see Russia as not the aggressor here is if you think Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
        randomdata 4y ago
        > Because nobody here is talking about lifting the sanctions to please Russia Right, as the ball is in Russia's court to appease the West to see them lifted, and so what political, material, or territorial concessions are being made by the West to avoid conflict? In reality, Russia is the one who must concede on Ukrainian territory for sanctions to be lifted. > The only way you could see Russia as not the aggressor here is if you think Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine... This is a logical fallacy. One's feelings towards the matter have absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand.
        NotTameAntelope 4y ago
        What is your opinion on whether or not Russia is justified in its invasion of Ukraine?
        randomdata 4y ago
        Not really my area of expertise. Any opinions I have would be pure tribalism, which is rather meaningless, and completely off-topic. I came into a discussion about the use of language, not geopolitical relations. What was wrong with the original subject that you feel the need to change it?

troon-lover 4y ago

patrick451 4y ago

I don't care about Ukraine nor who started it. It's none of our business. What I do care about is the supply chain going back to normal. Let's make peace with Russia.