6 ms·

As soon as I saw the headline, figured it was Australia. It's a real stretch to call it a liberal democracy at this point.

palmetieri2000 4y ago
Oh jog on, While I'm hardly impressed with this action from NSW State government, it does not represent Australia as an entirety. Further, while unusual and new, these are bail conditions. I challenge you to find a US state that does not engage in bail conditions similarly draconian. This is like seeing NYC or Cali Gun restrictions and saying the US isn't a liberal democracy because of them.
- markmark 4y ago
  Exactly, they could have just refused this guy bail and nobody on hacker news would have ever heard of it or cared if they did. But mention the word encryption and the world is falling down.
  - soraminazuki 4y ago
    People do care. The criminal justice system is a common topic on HN.
  - Fargoan 4y ago
    Refusing him bail for a non-violent crime would be insane
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    Refused bail for non-violent protest might just stir up some conversation here on HN... (I believe) Australia is used by the US as a western testing ground for some of the more draconian freedom-restriction laws, especially vis-a-vis encryption. What gets accepted here will find its way over there. She'll be right mate...
- zaptheimpaler 4y ago
  The conditions of his arrest sound ridiculous in the first place. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/24/i-never-thought-i-could-face-arrest-and-imprisonment-campaigning-for-climate-action https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/24/i-neve... https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qdc/2020/331 https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qdc/2020/331 He was charged for "interfering with a railway" because of a tripod suspended over a rail line? It sounds like he was basically pissed off some powerful coal people, got thrown in jail for that, and now his phone is police property.. Coming from a country thats not all that democratic in the first place, i think its important to at least understand that the appearance of "due process" e.g being charged with something or having a bail condition imposed does not by itself mean anything.. even Russia makes up some official charge before arresting someone.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    This is all the long tail of the corrupt-as-hell Scott Morrison government which was just evicted pretty soundly (after too bloody long though, and somehow Dutton is still in). NSW in particular once ICAC took a look had Gladys Berejiklian suddenly resign (as all these state level criminals do the second they get called before it), and the notable events surrounding why the Australian Federal Police Fixated Persons Unit arrested the producer of FriendlyJordies (political YouTuber) who was being sued by her Deputy Premier John Barilaro for defamation, who also is being investigated for corruption right now when a job was invented and given to him when he decided to exit politics (on account of "definitely going down for corruption as well"). Which is a long way to say that if the current Labor government has any sense, Federal ICAC will be done, and strong, soon (they say October) because switching the lights on in Parliament House is going to send a lot of cockroaches scurrying. Just need to make sure we get them with the boot.
    - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
      The years-long delay, attempts to water-down the powers, and eventual failure to implement Federal ICAC by the Liberal government is both an oddly silent but screamingly obvious indicator that there's a significant "cockroach" problem. The mainstream media barely mentions it, which is also an indicator of the scale of the problem. I hope Labour implement it, with appropriate strength and enforcement powers, but they're still politicians at heart, so who knows. Can't be more corrupt than Morrison's selected cabinet of philanderers though.
redact207 4y ago
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  My thoughts were along similar lines in terms of "if this group, then why not them, and them, and them, and them, and them" where pretty much every single "them" I can think of is a much greater blight on society than climate protesters. I'm a supporter of Australia's gun laws, but not a supporter of this kind of over-the-top restrictions for, what I consider to be (and that's the rub), the trivial / minor offense of protesting. The protection of "the economy" is paranoia-level, which doesn't bode well. Corruption is a transaction that encourages more transactions, whilst protest is only ever a restriction, therefore if the economy is the priority then protest is a worse crime than corruption. No wonder there are climate protesters...
  - calsy 4y ago
    It's so trivial when you gridlock major cities REPEATEDLY to spread a 'message' that could be told in a million other ways. Its trivial to worry about things like 'the economy' that provides a means to put a roof over your head and the ability to feed yourself and your family. Only someone who has little to no responsibilities could find it trivial.
    - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
      When I first watched The Blues Brothers as a kid I thought they'd go to jail forever for all the carnage they wrought driving through that shopping centre, and I totally could not understand why my dad laughed and said "it's not that serious". Now I do understand that. A long while ago I understood that.
      - calsy 4y ago
        A long while ago did you also understand the difference between fantasy and reality? That events in a movie created to entertain the viewer have no consequences. That you don’t see all the insurance claims and lawsuits because it’s not entertainment. Do you understand what an economy is? Do you understand that you don’t build your own home or grow your own food or supply your own power and water? That there needs to be a means for you to purchase these items? Do you understand what impacting services and business means? Do you understand the negative consequences? It’s so ‘not serious’ that the government has had to introduce new laws to deter people from disrupting the city.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
- exolymph 4y ago
  Point being? This is pure whataboutism for no apparent reason other than pressing the "USA BAD" button.
22c 4y ago
Come now, citizen. We don't want to allow this dangerous "Emoji Extremism" to proliferate! https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-teacher-fined-using-emojis-ukraine-invasion/31958632.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-teacher-fined-using-emojis-uk...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
calsy 4y ago
Yeah because everyone has the right to impede on others freedoms. Would you prefer, 1) Limited access to electronic devices or 2) Incarceration? They got a pretty good deal wouldn't you say?
- dekelpilli 4y ago
  Hardly, given they're still awaiting trial.
  - calsy 4y ago
    Yeah it’s called being out on bail. Lets pretend to be horrified that these people have had certain restrictions placed on them as a part of their bail conditions.

palmetieri2000 4y ago

Oh jog on, While I'm hardly impressed with this action from NSW State government, it does not represent Australia as an entirety. Further, while unusual and new, these are bail conditions. I challenge you to find a US state that does not engage in bail conditions similarly draconian. This is like seeing NYC or Cali Gun restrictions and saying the US isn't a liberal democracy because of them.

markmark 4y ago
Exactly, they could have just refused this guy bail and nobody on hacker news would have ever heard of it or cared if they did. But mention the word encryption and the world is falling down.
- soraminazuki 4y ago
  People do care. The criminal justice system is a common topic on HN.
- Fargoan 4y ago
  Refusing him bail for a non-violent crime would be insane
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Refused bail for non-violent protest might just stir up some conversation here on HN... (I believe) Australia is used by the US as a western testing ground for some of the more draconian freedom-restriction laws, especially vis-a-vis encryption. What gets accepted here will find its way over there. She'll be right mate...
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
The conditions of his arrest sound ridiculous in the first place. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/24/i-never-thought-i-could-face-arrest-and-imprisonment-campaigning-for-climate-action https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/24/i-neve... https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qdc/2020/331 https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qdc/2020/331 He was charged for "interfering with a railway" because of a tripod suspended over a rail line? It sounds like he was basically pissed off some powerful coal people, got thrown in jail for that, and now his phone is police property.. Coming from a country thats not all that democratic in the first place, i think its important to at least understand that the appearance of "due process" e.g being charged with something or having a bail condition imposed does not by itself mean anything.. even Russia makes up some official charge before arresting someone.
- XorNot 4y ago
  This is all the long tail of the corrupt-as-hell Scott Morrison government which was just evicted pretty soundly (after too bloody long though, and somehow Dutton is still in). NSW in particular once ICAC took a look had Gladys Berejiklian suddenly resign (as all these state level criminals do the second they get called before it), and the notable events surrounding why the Australian Federal Police Fixated Persons Unit arrested the producer of FriendlyJordies (political YouTuber) who was being sued by her Deputy Premier John Barilaro for defamation, who also is being investigated for corruption right now when a job was invented and given to him when he decided to exit politics (on account of "definitely going down for corruption as well"). Which is a long way to say that if the current Labor government has any sense, Federal ICAC will be done, and strong, soon (they say October) because switching the lights on in Parliament House is going to send a lot of cockroaches scurrying. Just need to make sure we get them with the boot.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    The years-long delay, attempts to water-down the powers, and eventual failure to implement Federal ICAC by the Liberal government is both an oddly silent but screamingly obvious indicator that there's a significant "cockroach" problem. The mainstream media barely mentions it, which is also an indicator of the scale of the problem. I hope Labour implement it, with appropriate strength and enforcement powers, but they're still politicians at heart, so who knows. Can't be more corrupt than Morrison's selected cabinet of philanderers though.

redact207 4y ago

BLKNSLVR 4y ago
My thoughts were along similar lines in terms of "if this group, then why not them, and them, and them, and them, and them" where pretty much every single "them" I can think of is a much greater blight on society than climate protesters. I'm a supporter of Australia's gun laws, but not a supporter of this kind of over-the-top restrictions for, what I consider to be (and that's the rub), the trivial / minor offense of protesting. The protection of "the economy" is paranoia-level, which doesn't bode well. Corruption is a transaction that encourages more transactions, whilst protest is only ever a restriction, therefore if the economy is the priority then protest is a worse crime than corruption. No wonder there are climate protesters...
- calsy 4y ago
  It's so trivial when you gridlock major cities REPEATEDLY to spread a 'message' that could be told in a million other ways. Its trivial to worry about things like 'the economy' that provides a means to put a roof over your head and the ability to feed yourself and your family. Only someone who has little to no responsibilities could find it trivial.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    When I first watched The Blues Brothers as a kid I thought they'd go to jail forever for all the carnage they wrought driving through that shopping centre, and I totally could not understand why my dad laughed and said "it's not that serious". Now I do understand that. A long while ago I understood that.
    - calsy 4y ago
      A long while ago did you also understand the difference between fantasy and reality? That events in a movie created to entertain the viewer have no consequences. That you don’t see all the insurance claims and lawsuits because it’s not entertainment. Do you understand what an economy is? Do you understand that you don’t build your own home or grow your own food or supply your own power and water? That there needs to be a means for you to purchase these items? Do you understand what impacting services and business means? Do you understand the negative consequences? It’s so ‘not serious’ that the government has had to introduce new laws to deter people from disrupting the city.

_Algernon_ 4y ago

exolymph 4y ago
Point being? This is pure whataboutism for no apparent reason other than pressing the "USA BAD" button.

22c 4y ago

Come now, citizen. We don't want to allow this dangerous "Emoji Extremism" to proliferate! https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-teacher-fined-using-emojis-ukraine-invasion/31958632.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-teacher-fined-using-emojis-uk...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

calsy 4y ago

Yeah because everyone has the right to impede on others freedoms. Would you prefer, 1) Limited access to electronic devices or 2) Incarceration? They got a pretty good deal wouldn't you say?

dekelpilli 4y ago
Hardly, given they're still awaiting trial.
- calsy 4y ago
  Yeah it’s called being out on bail. Lets pretend to be horrified that these people have had certain restrictions placed on them as a part of their bail conditions.