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It's not dead yet. Actually there is two things : - one of course is that as HTML5 get stronger flash loses interest for some scenarios (even if it's still the

by zabar 15y ago

It's not dead yet. Actually there is two things : - one of course is that as HTML5 get stronger flash loses interest for some scenarios (even if it's still the best choice for many like games right now) - the other is that for mobile web, it was never the right choice. If you want to target mobile right now, you either do a really simple site in HTML or you target a deeper experience with an app, but there was no space in between for a plugin. Adobe try to embrace both of these cases with their HTML5 tools for the web and Air for the apps. I think that what Stave Jobs understood early on and a reason why he never allowed plugins on mobile browsers.

tensafefrogs 15y ago
Most of the arguments against Flash being dead seem to be one of these: 1) Games 2) Mobile apps 3) Video #1 I agree that flash is better for making games, but how big of a market are games on the internet? It's a 'big' market, to be sure, but how big compared to the number of Flash websites a few years ago? Surely it's a low percentage (anyone have actual stats? I don't know of any). Is the amount of Flash games being made enough to keep Adobe interested in continuing to improve Flash? As the desktop market recedes and mobile devices become more popular with users (and I truly do believe that it will) what will happen to the Flash games? As for #2 - mobile apps. This could be the answer to the above, but why use AIR when you can get better performance writing native code for whatever platform you are working on? I'm sure it will work out for companies that want to save a few dollars and be able to launch a simple game on many platforms while writing it once, but that kind of development has rarely succeeded in the world. Look at Java apps on windows/osx - they often feel klunky and look ugly and don't support the native UI elements of the host OS (does AIR do this on mobile phones? I'm admittedly not that familiar with it). Because of the history of this area of technology, I'm highly skeptical. #3 I agree with, and covered this in a comment below. I believe Flash will be useful for desktop video delivery for a few years to come, but will eventually lose to native support.
- benologist 15y ago
  Games on the internet are massive. We track 100s of millions of hours a month spent playing them. Adobe's not really killing Flash, what's happening is it's transitioning to a development platform rather than development + consumption platform and that's not a horrible thing - Flash is a great platform to develop in, being able to export mobile apps from it is far more important than being able to play the SWF files on mobile. Flash on mobile could have worked but there's two reasons it doesn't ... one is purely technical that time and improved hardware would erode, the killer one is consumption - games on websites are just a plain inferior way to play them vs apps, and ads + video + applications are all solved problems. There is no must-have use case as a consumption platform on mobile. They made the right choice - let Flash become just a development platform and let the output be whatever provides the optimal user experience - on desktops it is (or can be) the Flash Player, on mobile it's apps and HTML5.
cft 15y ago
How about tablets? Flash will not work on tablets, because they are considered "mobile" by Adobe. What if tablets take 50% of the laptop market share in the next 5 years? Will you still say it's not dead?
frou_dh 15y ago
To me, the "mobile web" and the "web" are one and the same thing. What I like about modern phones and tablets is that it's possible to use actual websites instead of being diverted to some m-dot thing. If Flash is in decline on the mobile web then it's also in decline on the web.

by zabar 15y ago

tensafefrogs 15y ago

Most of the arguments against Flash being dead seem to be one of these: 1) Games 2) Mobile apps 3) Video #1 I agree that flash is better for making games, but how big of a market are games on the internet? It's a 'big' market, to be sure, but how big compared to the number of Flash websites a few years ago? Surely it's a low percentage (anyone have actual stats? I don't know of any). Is the amount of Flash games being made enough to keep Adobe interested in continuing to improve Flash? As the desktop market recedes and mobile devices become more popular with users (and I truly do believe that it will) what will happen to the Flash games? As for #2 - mobile apps. This could be the answer to the above, but why use AIR when you can get better performance writing native code for whatever platform you are working on? I'm sure it will work out for companies that want to save a few dollars and be able to launch a simple game on many platforms while writing it once, but that kind of development has rarely succeeded in the world. Look at Java apps on windows/osx - they often feel klunky and look ugly and don't support the native UI elements of the host OS (does AIR do this on mobile phones? I'm admittedly not that familiar with it). Because of the history of this area of technology, I'm highly skeptical. #3 I agree with, and covered this in a comment below. I believe Flash will be useful for desktop video delivery for a few years to come, but will eventually lose to native support.

benologist 15y ago
Games on the internet are massive. We track 100s of millions of hours a month spent playing them. Adobe's not really killing Flash, what's happening is it's transitioning to a development platform rather than development + consumption platform and that's not a horrible thing - Flash is a great platform to develop in, being able to export mobile apps from it is far more important than being able to play the SWF files on mobile. Flash on mobile could have worked but there's two reasons it doesn't ... one is purely technical that time and improved hardware would erode, the killer one is consumption - games on websites are just a plain inferior way to play them vs apps, and ads + video + applications are all solved problems. There is no must-have use case as a consumption platform on mobile. They made the right choice - let Flash become just a development platform and let the output be whatever provides the optimal user experience - on desktops it is (or can be) the Flash Player, on mobile it's apps and HTML5.

cft 15y ago

How about tablets? Flash will not work on tablets, because they are considered "mobile" by Adobe. What if tablets take 50% of the laptop market share in the next 5 years? Will you still say it's not dead?

frou_dh 15y ago

To me, the "mobile web" and the "web" are one and the same thing. What I like about modern phones and tablets is that it's possible to use actual websites instead of being diverted to some m-dot thing. If Flash is in decline on the mobile web then it's also in decline on the web.