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A MacBook Pro starts at $1299 with a significantly faster processor. You can’t upgrade a MacBook Pro, but if your laptop is getting stolen half way through it’s

A MacBook Pro starts at $1299 with a significantly faster processor. You can’t upgrade a MacBook Pro, but if your laptop is getting stolen half way through it’s lifetime, you’re probably not upgrading it. So not really.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
In the US maybe. In other countries Macs are quite a bit more expensive. And your customer support and service experience could be worse than in the US.
- hug 4y ago
  You can’t buy a Framework device in most countries, so that’s a little moot. Can you tell I’m a tiny bit bitter, as an Australian? :)
  - synicalx 4y ago
    You might not be able to get a Framework here (yet), but ebay is FULL of ex-business Thinkpads that are almost as easy to refurb and cost <$500. Hell a lot of them are new enough that you can still get genuine parts for them direct from Lenovo.
  - registeredcorn 4y ago
    Have you considered using a third party shipping service?
    - Chilko 4y ago
      If you do this you often get hit with significant import & customs duty (at least in NZ, everything here is more expensive than in US)
    - paranoidrobot 4y ago
      It'd cost about $250-300 to ship to Australia, based on the last time I bought a laptop from the US. Then you pay customs & import taxes on the combined purchase+shipping costs, which would be about another $200-250.
      - Kadin 4y ago
        Wow. A person could perhaps not cover, but at least nicely subsidize, the cost of a trip to Australia by hand-carrying a couple of laptops with them... wonder how many you can bring through Customs before they start to get suspicious? It reminds me of my family from the UK when they used to travel to the US decades ago. They'd go home with half a dozen pairs of jeans each, and nearly pay for their tickets.
        russelg 4y ago
        If any of them are still in the box you'll be enjoying a nice customs bill (doubly so because you definitely didn't declare them)
        paranoidrobot 4y ago
        Even if you exclude the cost of shipping to purchase it, it becomes a significant risk if something were to go wrong and you needed to ship it back for repair. Shipping it to the US and then back might involve not only stupid expensive shipping, but also having to figure out paperwork for both Australian and US Customs, unless you want to potentially pay double import-duties on each side. I did it with Lenovo laptops years ago, because buying from the US and with shipping it still worked out to be around 1/3 the price of buying it from the AU Lenovo store, and Lenovo had a Global warranty program on their Thinkpad line. Smaller OEMs without that, I wouldn't risk it.
        worthless-trash 4y ago
        There was a point in history, where it was cheaper to fly to the US, buy photoshop and fly back to Australia.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - XorNot 4y ago
    Australian here - me too. And I need to buy a laptop now (haven't had one since WFH meant I didn't need anything but a desktop). I'll be going for a ThinkPad Gen 2 instead.
    - noisy_boy 4y ago
      Not sure if by Gen 2 you mean Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 - if you did, as an owner of the said machine, everything generally works but that is the best I can say about it. Battery life isn't exactly stellar, graphics issues with NVIDIA drivers all the time, fans start blowing full-tilt at the earliest opportunity and can get pretty hot. Practically being a life-long Linux user, I've never owned a Macbook so not sure if things are better on that side.
      - XorNot 4y ago
        I'm looking at the L14 model, I don't exactly need "spectacular" just "Intel graphics": https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadl/thinkpad-l14-g2/22tpl14l4n2 https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadl/th... EDIT: Man, reviews for that and the Gen 3 just really aren't great in terms of Linux support.
        noisy_boy 4y ago
        And they are not exactly cheap either - practically same as P-series. I have said this before but Framework are leaving the opportunity to create a Thinkpad-killer series on the table that would be perfect to target all the folks unhappy with the decline of the Thinkpad. Heck, these people would probably pay more than they did for Thinkpads just to get those features back and make up for years of pent-up disappointments. Such a device has a good chance to become the "de-facto" developer's choice for Linux folks.
martin_a 4y ago
> MacBook Pro starts at $1299 In Germany the base model starts at 1599 €, which is around $1630. Might look even worse for other countries.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  Base model is 1700 Can$, which is about 1300 USD. But take with a grain of salt as those numbers are from apple canada's website. Inevitably, cellphones and consumer laptops, something makes them cost more than advertised.
- laurencerowe 4y ago
  Most of that difference is because advertised prices in the EU include VAT whereas sales tax in the US is added on top of the advertised price.
  - laurencerowe 4y ago
    This is clearly stated on Apple's EU product pages. Germany (VAT rate 19%): https://www.apple.com/de/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro https://www.apple.com/de/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro 1.599,00 € Einschließlich MwSt. und ges. Gebühren i. H. v. ca. 266,00 €.* Ireland (VAT rate 23%): https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro €1,629.00 Total Payments for your device include VAT of approx. €305.00.* From the US store you need to go to the checkout page before you see the tax payable, so assuming San Francisco (sales tax rate 8.625%): Subtotal $1,299.00 Estimated tax $112.04 CA recycling fee $4.00 Total $1,415.04 Sales tax is lower in the US than VAT is in the EU. Taxes are the price you pay for living in more a civilized society.
- jklein11 4y ago
  When was the last time you checked the currency conversion?
  - martin_a 4y ago
    15 seconds before the comment.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

In the US maybe. In other countries Macs are quite a bit more expensive. And your customer support and service experience could be worse than in the US.

hug 4y ago
You can’t buy a Framework device in most countries, so that’s a little moot. Can you tell I’m a tiny bit bitter, as an Australian? :)
- synicalx 4y ago
  You might not be able to get a Framework here (yet), but ebay is FULL of ex-business Thinkpads that are almost as easy to refurb and cost <$500. Hell a lot of them are new enough that you can still get genuine parts for them direct from Lenovo.
- registeredcorn 4y ago
  Have you considered using a third party shipping service?
  - Chilko 4y ago
    If you do this you often get hit with significant import & customs duty (at least in NZ, everything here is more expensive than in US)
  - paranoidrobot 4y ago
    It'd cost about $250-300 to ship to Australia, based on the last time I bought a laptop from the US. Then you pay customs & import taxes on the combined purchase+shipping costs, which would be about another $200-250.
    - Kadin 4y ago
      Wow. A person could perhaps not cover, but at least nicely subsidize, the cost of a trip to Australia by hand-carrying a couple of laptops with them... wonder how many you can bring through Customs before they start to get suspicious? It reminds me of my family from the UK when they used to travel to the US decades ago. They'd go home with half a dozen pairs of jeans each, and nearly pay for their tickets.
      - russelg 4y ago
        If any of them are still in the box you'll be enjoying a nice customs bill (doubly so because you definitely didn't declare them)
      - paranoidrobot 4y ago
        Even if you exclude the cost of shipping to purchase it, it becomes a significant risk if something were to go wrong and you needed to ship it back for repair. Shipping it to the US and then back might involve not only stupid expensive shipping, but also having to figure out paperwork for both Australian and US Customs, unless you want to potentially pay double import-duties on each side. I did it with Lenovo laptops years ago, because buying from the US and with shipping it still worked out to be around 1/3 the price of buying it from the AU Lenovo store, and Lenovo had a Global warranty program on their Thinkpad line. Smaller OEMs without that, I wouldn't risk it.
      - worthless-trash 4y ago
        There was a point in history, where it was cheaper to fly to the US, buy photoshop and fly back to Australia.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- XorNot 4y ago
  Australian here - me too. And I need to buy a laptop now (haven't had one since WFH meant I didn't need anything but a desktop). I'll be going for a ThinkPad Gen 2 instead.
  - noisy_boy 4y ago
    Not sure if by Gen 2 you mean Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 - if you did, as an owner of the said machine, everything generally works but that is the best I can say about it. Battery life isn't exactly stellar, graphics issues with NVIDIA drivers all the time, fans start blowing full-tilt at the earliest opportunity and can get pretty hot. Practically being a life-long Linux user, I've never owned a Macbook so not sure if things are better on that side.
    - XorNot 4y ago
      I'm looking at the L14 model, I don't exactly need "spectacular" just "Intel graphics": https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadl/thinkpad-l14-g2/22tpl14l4n2 https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadl/th... EDIT: Man, reviews for that and the Gen 3 just really aren't great in terms of Linux support.
      - noisy_boy 4y ago
        And they are not exactly cheap either - practically same as P-series. I have said this before but Framework are leaving the opportunity to create a Thinkpad-killer series on the table that would be perfect to target all the folks unhappy with the decline of the Thinkpad. Heck, these people would probably pay more than they did for Thinkpads just to get those features back and make up for years of pent-up disappointments. Such a device has a good chance to become the "de-facto" developer's choice for Linux folks.

martin_a 4y ago

> MacBook Pro starts at $1299 In Germany the base model starts at 1599 €, which is around $1630. Might look even worse for other countries.

sandworm101 4y ago
Base model is 1700 Can$, which is about 1300 USD. But take with a grain of salt as those numbers are from apple canada's website. Inevitably, cellphones and consumer laptops, something makes them cost more than advertised.
laurencerowe 4y ago
Most of that difference is because advertised prices in the EU include VAT whereas sales tax in the US is added on top of the advertised price.
- laurencerowe 4y ago
  This is clearly stated on Apple's EU product pages. Germany (VAT rate 19%): https://www.apple.com/de/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro https://www.apple.com/de/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro 1.599,00 € Einschließlich MwSt. und ges. Gebühren i. H. v. ca. 266,00 €.* Ireland (VAT rate 23%): https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro €1,629.00 Total Payments for your device include VAT of approx. €305.00.* From the US store you need to go to the checkout page before you see the tax payable, so assuming San Francisco (sales tax rate 8.625%): Subtotal $1,299.00 Estimated tax $112.04 CA recycling fee $4.00 Total $1,415.04 Sales tax is lower in the US than VAT is in the EU. Taxes are the price you pay for living in more a civilized society.
jklein11 4y ago
When was the last time you checked the currency conversion?
- martin_a 4y ago
  15 seconds before the comment.