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Americans love feeling like they're about to be rich (all 300+ million of us), thus unions are bad because they redistribute power to the poor.

Melatonic 4y ago
We are all just "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" after all!
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  In case you didn't know, "More than 8% of American adults are millionaires": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/09/more-than-8-percent-of-american-adults-are-millionaires-heres-how-they-got-wealthy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/09/more-than-8-percent-of-ameri... On top of that, the percentage of millionaires on HN is probably closer to 80% than 8% so that hackneyed slogan has little resonance with this audience. Then add in that many, many developers get a massive chunk of their compensation in stock or options, which literally aligns their interests with the owners of the company because they _are_ part-owners of the company, and that slogan is DOA.
jimbob45 4y ago
Is it a feeling of imminent wealth? Or is it a feeling of equal opportunity for everyone? It seems disingenuous to frame it as "those silly Americans thinking they're about to be rich". You might as well frame unions as "protecting the most useless employees from being fired".
- tmp_anon_22 4y ago
  I'm sure its a complex mix of 200+ years of socioeconomic development that goes well beyond my glib comment. I do really believe there is something to it though and understanding American culture (and politics).
- hourago 4y ago
  > "protecting the most useless employees from being fired" Unions don't do that, that's pure propaganda. Unions bargain for more free time, better pay, better work conditions (healthier, safer).
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    It also plays into the whole phenomena where many people for some reason would rather ensure one person is punished than a hundred helped.
  - scifibestfi 4y ago
    > Unions bargain for more free time, better pay, better work conditions (healthier, safer) They do that AND make it hard to fire useless employees. It's a mixed bag, as all organizational layers are.
    - juve1996 4y ago
      Meh, useless employees will be there either way, union or not. That's just the world.
  - jimbob45 4y ago
    You're right - unions don't do that. They could be incorrectly perceived as doing that though, which is the comparison I'm making to "Americans love feeling like they're about to be rich". That's very clearly not how Americans feel and framing it that way is pure propaganda, as you put it.
    - hourago 4y ago
      Answering to the wrong comment? I never said that.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    You might want to look into the practices of police unions. The inability to fire for bad behavior is part of why police forces turn into self serving monstrosities.

Melatonic 4y ago

We are all just "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" after all!

ThrowawayR2 4y ago
In case you didn't know, "More than 8% of American adults are millionaires": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/09/more-than-8-percent-of-american-adults-are-millionaires-heres-how-they-got-wealthy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/09/more-than-8-percent-of-ameri... On top of that, the percentage of millionaires on HN is probably closer to 80% than 8% so that hackneyed slogan has little resonance with this audience. Then add in that many, many developers get a massive chunk of their compensation in stock or options, which literally aligns their interests with the owners of the company because they _are_ part-owners of the company, and that slogan is DOA.

jimbob45 4y ago

Is it a feeling of imminent wealth? Or is it a feeling of equal opportunity for everyone? It seems disingenuous to frame it as "those silly Americans thinking they're about to be rich". You might as well frame unions as "protecting the most useless employees from being fired".

tmp_anon_22 4y ago
I'm sure its a complex mix of 200+ years of socioeconomic development that goes well beyond my glib comment. I do really believe there is something to it though and understanding American culture (and politics).
hourago 4y ago
> "protecting the most useless employees from being fired" Unions don't do that, that's pure propaganda. Unions bargain for more free time, better pay, better work conditions (healthier, safer).
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  It also plays into the whole phenomena where many people for some reason would rather ensure one person is punished than a hundred helped.
- scifibestfi 4y ago
  > Unions bargain for more free time, better pay, better work conditions (healthier, safer) They do that AND make it hard to fire useless employees. It's a mixed bag, as all organizational layers are.
  - juve1996 4y ago
    Meh, useless employees will be there either way, union or not. That's just the world.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  You're right - unions don't do that. They could be incorrectly perceived as doing that though, which is the comparison I'm making to "Americans love feeling like they're about to be rich". That's very clearly not how Americans feel and framing it that way is pure propaganda, as you put it.
  - hourago 4y ago
    Answering to the wrong comment? I never said that.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  You might want to look into the practices of police unions. The inability to fire for bad behavior is part of why police forces turn into self serving monstrosities.