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"Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding dev tooling and experience, so it is not a big surprise." To be fair, for all the flack Microsof

"Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding dev tooling and experience, so it is not a big surprise." To be fair, for all the flack Microsoft got/gets, the dev tooling for Windows ecosystem is miles ahead of anyone else and world class. Perhaps I am biased as I worked there at one point, but since I don't anymore, I have also seen tooling from Apple and Google and they are a couple of decades behind. There is some truth to why Steve Ballmer went ballistic with his Developer chant, they really built great tooling for developers.

deleted 4y ago
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game-of-throws 4y ago
MS had "edit and continue" (aka hot reloading) in Visual Basic in the 90s. Then I switched to other languages and I've gone without it the rest of my career. I don't think VB the language is very good, but the developer experience still beats anything I've used since then.
pjmlp 4y ago
With the caveat that Borland is even better before they decided to focus on enterprise customers, and went through all those acquisitions and name changes. Delphi and C++ Builder are still unmatched in many capabilities on the Visual Studio side.
refulgentis 4y ago
This is an odd response given the article calls at Google as having the gold standard for this, and I'm not sure there's any equivalent at all at MS? They push Flutter too
- m_at_goog 4y ago
  Maybe they mean internal at Google? Internal Google tooling is pretty hit or miss, especially with older products that are a patch work of different internal only Google stacks.
- jayd16 4y ago
  You mean like this? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/hot-reload?view=vs-2022 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/hot-r... "Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding dev tooling and experience" was a direct quote from the article.
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    Thank you! That context makes it much clearer
- pjmlp 4y ago
  The gold standard are Smalltalk and Common Lisp environments, that people pushing Flutter tend to ignore on their marketing, as they ignored the existing work on Java and .NET ecosystems.
tester756 4y ago
There's emoji after "killing it" I believe it changes meaning of this sentence.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  No it doesn't? In that context, "killing it" means doing a great job.
can16358p 4y ago
Agreed. Visual Studio is an excellent piece of software, along with .NET and C#. I think Apple isn't that bad either, yet still behind MS. Google is a disaster though. A few weeks ago I needed to download Android Studio. Downloaded a clean stable release from its official site for my machine (M1 Mac). From that clean install literally erroring while trying to launch AVDs to cryptic error messages about JDK environments, Google's the only IDE out of these big three where I get countless of errors and losing hours on something that literally doesn't work out of the box. Hope Xcode and VS never becomes something crappy like Android Studio.

deleted 4y ago

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game-of-throws 4y ago

MS had "edit and continue" (aka hot reloading) in Visual Basic in the 90s. Then I switched to other languages and I've gone without it the rest of my career. I don't think VB the language is very good, but the developer experience still beats anything I've used since then.

pjmlp 4y ago

With the caveat that Borland is even better before they decided to focus on enterprise customers, and went through all those acquisitions and name changes. Delphi and C++ Builder are still unmatched in many capabilities on the Visual Studio side.

refulgentis 4y ago

This is an odd response given the article calls at Google as having the gold standard for this, and I'm not sure there's any equivalent at all at MS? They push Flutter too

m_at_goog 4y ago
Maybe they mean internal at Google? Internal Google tooling is pretty hit or miss, especially with older products that are a patch work of different internal only Google stacks.
jayd16 4y ago
You mean like this? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/hot-reload?view=vs-2022 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/hot-r... "Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding dev tooling and experience" was a direct quote from the article.
- refulgentis 4y ago
  Thank you! That context makes it much clearer
pjmlp 4y ago
The gold standard are Smalltalk and Common Lisp environments, that people pushing Flutter tend to ignore on their marketing, as they ignored the existing work on Java and .NET ecosystems.

tester756 4y ago

There's emoji after "killing it" I believe it changes meaning of this sentence.

frosted-flakes 4y ago
No it doesn't? In that context, "killing it" means doing a great job.

can16358p 4y ago

Agreed. Visual Studio is an excellent piece of software, along with .NET and C#. I think Apple isn't that bad either, yet still behind MS. Google is a disaster though. A few weeks ago I needed to download Android Studio. Downloaded a clean stable release from its official site for my machine (M1 Mac). From that clean install literally erroring while trying to launch AVDs to cryptic error messages about JDK environments, Google's the only IDE out of these big three where I get countless of errors and losing hours on something that literally doesn't work out of the box. Hope Xcode and VS never becomes something crappy like Android Studio.