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Conservatives all over the world dream of setting up a chinese-style firewall in their countries. They are angry that it was first done by a clearly authoritari

by Iv 4y ago

Conservatives all over the world dream of setting up a chinese-style firewall in their countries. They are angry that it was first done by a clearly authoritarian regime which brings some resistance to the idea, but otherwise, in the name of fight against terrorism or child pornography, they would have set it up already.

canadiantim 4y ago
From what I can tell it’s more the progressive wing of most countries who are pushing for authoritarian censorship of the internet. Just look at Canada
- metadat 4y ago
  <Citation requested> Is this common knowledge? It's the first claim I've encountered of Canada attempting Internet censorship.
  - zo1 4y ago
    I googled it and found Bill C-11. Not going to dig deeper into it and confirm details, but maybe you didn't hear about it for a reason?
    - spinny 4y ago
      Yup. massive media black out on this. only know about it because a canadian youtuber/lawyer (runkle of the bailey) was talking about it
    - metadat 4y ago
      Thanks, I'm not living in .ca at the moment. I do believe Canadians appreciate their Internet freedom.
  - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
    It's a big topic right now in Canada. Pre-Elon Twitter compared Canada's proposed regulations to North Korea and China. >Newly released documents reveal Twitter Canada told government officials that a federal plan to create a new internet regulator with the power to block specific websites is comparable to drastic actions used in authoritarian countries like China, North Korea and Iran. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-compared-liberal-governments-online-harms-plan-to-china-north/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-com...
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  > ... it’s more the progressive wing of most countries who are pushing for authoritarian censorship of the internet China, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Russia... Aren't progressive by any metric.
  - blfr 4y ago
    China is nominatively communist, the most progressive ideology in existence or at least in the running for the title. They even had one-child policy.
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      > China is nominatively communist, the most progressive ideology in existence... There is no connection whatsoever between progressive social policies, and macroeconomic planning. Denmark is an extremely progressive country, way more than China in all aspects, yet they run under a free-market capitalist economy.
- earth_walker 4y ago
  I agree that the Liberal's current push to degrade Canadian's privacy is worrisome - and their excuse is "we need expanded surveillance powers to make sure your privacy is protected..."!?! I disagree that this is a partisan thing however. Whether it's Canada, the UK or anywhere else it seems each party in power just pushes for more surveillance and more censorship, just using different excuses to justify their actions. For example, Harper's conservative government put forth bill C-13 (online crime excuse) and C-30 ('think of the children' excuse), which arguably laid the way for much of the spying apparatus that is currently in place against Canadian citizens. And while Obama allowed the NSA's warrantless internet surveillance program, Trump extended it until 2024. All governments want to spy on you, and all governments want to be able to control what you say, period. They just want you to beg for it first.
- int_19h 4y ago
  Both big government conservatives and big government progressives are pushing for more censorship. The only difference is the topics that they want to be censored. (Side note: the American Republican party is big government conservatives. Their rhetoric is irrelevant - look at what they do, not at what they say they want to do.)
Eupraxias 4y ago
By conservatives, do you mean the same people who believe we should be conservative in our application of government? Are you sure you are not speaking of liberals, who believe government should be applied liberally? Not like any of them act as they speak, but if I am not mistaken, that's what the words mean.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  > believe we should be conservative in our application of government? No, they believe "traditional" systems should be retained (i.e. conserved). > government should be applied liberally? That is almost diametrically opposite to the use of the word liberal as applied to politics.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  You are mistaken.
  - Agamus 4y ago
    No, I am not.
    - cstross 4y ago
      Shorter version: Yes, you are mistaken. Longer version: this is a discussion of a bill in progress in the British parliamentary system, where the current government is by a party known as the Conservative and Unionist Party, or "Conservatives" for short. This should not be confused with any colloquial meaning of the term "conservative" that might be familiar to you from American vernacular usage. Note that political party names undergo drift from whatever they originally described over a period of decades to centuries. For example, the Australian Liberal Party is anything but "liberal" in the US context -- they're roughly equivalent to the US Republican mainstream in terms of ideology. Nor is the Australian "Labour" party a party of organized labour. Neither is the British Labour party -- it used to be, but the party leadership embarked on a protracted and mostly successful campaign to cut it off from its grassroots over a decade ago. Anyway: the Conservative and Unionist Party has a very specific policy platform, which is described by the word "conservative" in British political discourse and which does not map neatly onto the American concept of conservativism because large chunks of American conservative culture simply don't exist in the UK. Yes, there are out-of-the-closet libertarians and objectivists and Christian dominionists in the Conservative party, but they're minor factions. The main faction can loosely be described as post-Thatcherite free marketeers, with a recent influx of hard-right racists and xenophobes who migrated en masse from UKIP, the UK Independence Party, after the Brexit referendum in 2016. There is no equivalent of the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, so there can be no equivalent of Constitutional Originalism in British conservativism. It's a different animal.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
Progressives currently threaten internet freedom far more and it isn't even a competition here. They demand hate speech laws, people and content to be banned. They are just the new conservatives with their own dogma, sensibilities and aversion to free information exchange.

by Iv 4y ago

canadiantim 4y ago

From what I can tell it’s more the progressive wing of most countries who are pushing for authoritarian censorship of the internet. Just look at Canada

metadat 4y ago
<Citation requested> Is this common knowledge? It's the first claim I've encountered of Canada attempting Internet censorship.
- zo1 4y ago
  I googled it and found Bill C-11. Not going to dig deeper into it and confirm details, but maybe you didn't hear about it for a reason?
  - spinny 4y ago
    Yup. massive media black out on this. only know about it because a canadian youtuber/lawyer (runkle of the bailey) was talking about it
  - metadat 4y ago
    Thanks, I'm not living in .ca at the moment. I do believe Canadians appreciate their Internet freedom.
- JacobThreeThree 4y ago
  It's a big topic right now in Canada. Pre-Elon Twitter compared Canada's proposed regulations to North Korea and China. >Newly released documents reveal Twitter Canada told government officials that a federal plan to create a new internet regulator with the power to block specific websites is comparable to drastic actions used in authoritarian countries like China, North Korea and Iran. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-compared-liberal-governments-online-harms-plan-to-china-north/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-com...
manuelabeledo 4y ago
> ... it’s more the progressive wing of most countries who are pushing for authoritarian censorship of the internet China, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Russia... Aren't progressive by any metric.
- blfr 4y ago
  China is nominatively communist, the most progressive ideology in existence or at least in the running for the title. They even had one-child policy.
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    > China is nominatively communist, the most progressive ideology in existence... There is no connection whatsoever between progressive social policies, and macroeconomic planning. Denmark is an extremely progressive country, way more than China in all aspects, yet they run under a free-market capitalist economy.
earth_walker 4y ago
I agree that the Liberal's current push to degrade Canadian's privacy is worrisome - and their excuse is "we need expanded surveillance powers to make sure your privacy is protected..."!?! I disagree that this is a partisan thing however. Whether it's Canada, the UK or anywhere else it seems each party in power just pushes for more surveillance and more censorship, just using different excuses to justify their actions. For example, Harper's conservative government put forth bill C-13 (online crime excuse) and C-30 ('think of the children' excuse), which arguably laid the way for much of the spying apparatus that is currently in place against Canadian citizens. And while Obama allowed the NSA's warrantless internet surveillance program, Trump extended it until 2024. All governments want to spy on you, and all governments want to be able to control what you say, period. They just want you to beg for it first.
int_19h 4y ago
Both big government conservatives and big government progressives are pushing for more censorship. The only difference is the topics that they want to be censored. (Side note: the American Republican party is big government conservatives. Their rhetoric is irrelevant - look at what they do, not at what they say they want to do.)

Eupraxias 4y ago

By conservatives, do you mean the same people who believe we should be conservative in our application of government? Are you sure you are not speaking of liberals, who believe government should be applied liberally? Not like any of them act as they speak, but if I am not mistaken, that's what the words mean.

adhesive_wombat 4y ago
> believe we should be conservative in our application of government? No, they believe "traditional" systems should be retained (i.e. conserved). > government should be applied liberally? That is almost diametrically opposite to the use of the word liberal as applied to politics.
goodpoint 4y ago
You are mistaken.
- Agamus 4y ago
  No, I am not.
  - cstross 4y ago
    Shorter version: Yes, you are mistaken. Longer version: this is a discussion of a bill in progress in the British parliamentary system, where the current government is by a party known as the Conservative and Unionist Party, or "Conservatives" for short. This should not be confused with any colloquial meaning of the term "conservative" that might be familiar to you from American vernacular usage. Note that political party names undergo drift from whatever they originally described over a period of decades to centuries. For example, the Australian Liberal Party is anything but "liberal" in the US context -- they're roughly equivalent to the US Republican mainstream in terms of ideology. Nor is the Australian "Labour" party a party of organized labour. Neither is the British Labour party -- it used to be, but the party leadership embarked on a protracted and mostly successful campaign to cut it off from its grassroots over a decade ago. Anyway: the Conservative and Unionist Party has a very specific policy platform, which is described by the word "conservative" in British political discourse and which does not map neatly onto the American concept of conservativism because large chunks of American conservative culture simply don't exist in the UK. Yes, there are out-of-the-closet libertarians and objectivists and Christian dominionists in the Conservative party, but they're minor factions. The main faction can loosely be described as post-Thatcherite free marketeers, with a recent influx of hard-right racists and xenophobes who migrated en masse from UKIP, the UK Independence Party, after the Brexit referendum in 2016. There is no equivalent of the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, so there can be no equivalent of Constitutional Originalism in British conservativism. It's a different animal.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

Progressives currently threaten internet freedom far more and it isn't even a competition here. They demand hate speech laws, people and content to be banned. They are just the new conservatives with their own dogma, sensibilities and aversion to free information exchange.