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I'm Québécois from birth (Trois Rivières). I voted in the incredibly close '95 seperation referendum. In my view, separation or sovereignty would be bad for us.

I'm Québécois from birth (Trois Rivières). I voted in the incredibly close '95 seperation referendum. In my view, separation or sovereignty would be bad for us. Separation is mainly predicated on the idea that Québécois are culturally distinct from the rest of Canada, and that our values would be better represented independently. We mostly speak French, and the rest of Canada is predominantly anglo (my New Brunswick Acadian mother in law would have me point out New Brunswick is officially bilingual and has many Francophones). Separatists would argue that there are substantively deeper differences, but having lived abroad in several countries over a decade and returned, any differences seem to me razor thin. We have vastly more in common than separates us. Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost. But creating a movement around identity is easy. So every now and again separatist ideas gather steam. We'll pay through the nose for a Québécois Nation and be no better off for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum

snapplebobapple 4y ago
Do you think the current crop at the top of the current separatist movement really wants to leave or do you think they are just stoking tension to maintain the crazy subsidy program we have had in place for the last several decades in the face of increasing western objection to the large transfer to Quebec (and several other provinces, most notably the maritimes and territories) and the strengthening separatist movement in the prairies driven by these transfers? Or alternatively, in conjunction with the above do you think it's tension stoking to try to maintain their seats in parliament rather than the slow decline of Quebec federal power as population shifts west? Or is it none of the above and the guys running the show over there really do think it's a good idea to leave?
bigDinosaur 4y ago
What powers does Quebec want that it doesn't actually have?
- bregma 4y ago
  It's not about power. It's about purity. The hardcore members of the independence movement bandies about what translates as "the pure wool". Today, their arguments are referred to elsewhere as "the great replacement theory".
  - jpambrun 4y ago
    If those hardcore exist, they represent a very small minority.
    - bregma 4y ago
      A small minority that would have won independence if it weren't for the money and the ethnic vote [0]. Nevertheless they've been able to circle the wagons [1]. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_respecting_the_laicity_of_the_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_respecting_the_laicity_of_...
newsclues 4y ago
Separation would be bad, but threatening to do so is quite the power move.
- jhbadger 4y ago
  Exactly. Quebec gets what it wants from Ottawa by having separatism as a threat.
  - enriquto 4y ago
    Sounds like Canada proper would benefit greatly by letting Quebec go, then? Thus they would't bear the heavy burden of these concessions that they are continuously forced to do.
    - jamincan 4y ago
      It would be interesting to see polling about how the rest of Canada feels about Quebec separating now compared to 1995. I was just a child at the time and didn't want Quebec to separate, but now as an adult, I feel much more ambivalent.
- qwedf 4y ago
  It's not about power with Canada, it's about power within the borders to ensure the "pure wool" is not just preserved but any contaminating factors eliminated
ekidd 4y ago
> Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost. Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec. For example, my wife and I would easily meet the requirements to immigrate to Quebec. We have francophone family in Montreal, we speak French (one of us natively), and we have valuable professional skills. We would have no objections to sending our kids to francophone schools. And Montreal is one of my favorite cities on the planet, despite the horrible traffic and interminable road construction. But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada. An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto?
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec. How about those Curfews and other insane covid responses? >But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada. So lets say I go to Northsec in Montreal, awesome experience. Since I cannot prove I went to an english school. I would only be served in french if I ended up in hospital. Parles pas francais. So what? I just die in the hospital? I've been to a quebec hospital before. I waited 16 hours in the waiting room because I didnt speak french. Obviously I'm not going to Montreal anymore. Northsec is awesome but guess not anymore. >An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto? What you are seeing as a negative the quebec separatists see as a positive.

snapplebobapple 4y ago

Do you think the current crop at the top of the current separatist movement really wants to leave or do you think they are just stoking tension to maintain the crazy subsidy program we have had in place for the last several decades in the face of increasing western objection to the large transfer to Quebec (and several other provinces, most notably the maritimes and territories) and the strengthening separatist movement in the prairies driven by these transfers? Or alternatively, in conjunction with the above do you think it's tension stoking to try to maintain their seats in parliament rather than the slow decline of Quebec federal power as population shifts west? Or is it none of the above and the guys running the show over there really do think it's a good idea to leave?

bigDinosaur 4y ago

What powers does Quebec want that it doesn't actually have?

bregma 4y ago
It's not about power. It's about purity. The hardcore members of the independence movement bandies about what translates as "the pure wool". Today, their arguments are referred to elsewhere as "the great replacement theory".
- jpambrun 4y ago
  If those hardcore exist, they represent a very small minority.
  - bregma 4y ago
    A small minority that would have won independence if it weren't for the money and the ethnic vote [0]. Nevertheless they've been able to circle the wagons [1]. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_respecting_the_laicity_of_the_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_respecting_the_laicity_of_...

newsclues 4y ago

Separation would be bad, but threatening to do so is quite the power move.

jhbadger 4y ago
Exactly. Quebec gets what it wants from Ottawa by having separatism as a threat.
- enriquto 4y ago
  Sounds like Canada proper would benefit greatly by letting Quebec go, then? Thus they would't bear the heavy burden of these concessions that they are continuously forced to do.
  - jamincan 4y ago
    It would be interesting to see polling about how the rest of Canada feels about Quebec separating now compared to 1995. I was just a child at the time and didn't want Quebec to separate, but now as an adult, I feel much more ambivalent.
qwedf 4y ago
It's not about power with Canada, it's about power within the borders to ensure the "pure wool" is not just preserved but any contaminating factors eliminated

ekidd 4y ago

> Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost. Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec. For example, my wife and I would easily meet the requirements to immigrate to Quebec. We have francophone family in Montreal, we speak French (one of us natively), and we have valuable professional skills. We would have no objections to sending our kids to francophone schools. And Montreal is one of my favorite cities on the planet, despite the horrible traffic and interminable road construction. But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada. An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto?

incomingpain 4y ago
>Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec. How about those Curfews and other insane covid responses? >But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada. So lets say I go to Northsec in Montreal, awesome experience. Since I cannot prove I went to an english school. I would only be served in french if I ended up in hospital. Parles pas francais. So what? I just die in the hospital? I've been to a quebec hospital before. I waited 16 hours in the waiting room because I didnt speak french. Obviously I'm not going to Montreal anymore. Northsec is awesome but guess not anymore. >An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto? What you are seeing as a negative the quebec separatists see as a positive.