7 ms·

If all Rejection Letters could be so nice...

96 points by 24pfilms 15y ago

You guys are a class act.. We're sorry to say we couldn't accept your proposal for funding. Please don't take it personally. The applications we receive get better every funding cycle, and since there's a limit on the number of startups we can interview in person, we had to turn away a lot of genuinely promising groups. Another reason you shouldn't take this personally is that we know we make lots of mistakes. It's alarming how often the last group to make it over the threshold for interviews ends up being one that we fund. That means there are surely other good groups that fall just below the threshold and that we miss even interviewing. http://ycombinator.com/whynot.html We're trying to get better at this, but the hard limit on the number of interviews means it's practically certain that groups we rejected will go on to create successful startups. If you do, we'd appreciate it if you'd send us an email telling us about it; we want to learn from our mistakes. Y Combinator Team

allanscu 15y ago
If you're hungry enough, being rejected may be the best thing that will ever happen to you. Don't let a YC Reject letter stop you from continuing your dream.
- wuster 15y ago
  I'm possibly rationalizing here, but some of the NOs I've received in my life have led to decisions and outcomes that I know ended up being the better path. So, definitely not something to feel down about, it's a tough YC class to get into. Anyone who think they got jibbed because of supposedly amazing creds should congratulate YC that the applicant pool is so strong that so many other applicants are at least equal in ability. Anyway, like Zuck said at Startup School - just go F'ing build it and prove them wrong if you can - it's so damn cheap to put out an MVP these days. I know we will continue our experiments and move methodically through our own process of trying to build a viable business, regardless of YC's opinion. I am pretty sure this is what pg would encourage as well.
gbsi 15y ago
True. Just got mine and just want to work harder.
dotmatrix 15y ago
A friend of mine who completed YC told me that there was a guy who got rejected 4 or 5 times before getting accepted. Just remember always be positive and keep working hard :) Cheers!
- RussRomStanBety 15y ago
  Did he submit a new project each time?
  - dotmatrix 15y ago
    Yes I believe so, that is key.
    - yesimahuman 15y ago
      I applied twice with a previous idea. Rejected once, interviewed and rejected another time.
      - RussRomStanBety 15y ago
        who was in the interview room with you ?
        yesimahuman 15y ago
        I remember all of the partners being there.
    - sp332 15y ago
      Don't YC claim to choose teams instead of ideas?
      - earbitscom 15y ago
        Maybe the change in idea, or the progress, showed the true colors of the team better.
maeon3 15y ago
I'm not sure why people beat themselves up so much for not passing a candidate filter where teams of people select a candidate from a list based on various criteria and instinct. It has been mathematically demonstrated that these processes fail at doing a better job than throwing a dart at a wall containing a list of all the candidates. When I get a rejection letter for anything, I shrug and treat it like losing a raffle. I don't sweat it, the ticket candidate selection process is not based on merit, it's based on randomness.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  ...a filter which has been mathematically demonstrated to fail at doing better than random chance at picking good candidates Where could I read more about this?
  - maeon3 15y ago
    Read Joel's epic post here describing the phenomenon: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html The 'dead sea effect' is caused by this phenomenon: http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/ http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-d... Hiring managers get the technical competency part right but they completely miss the most important things: work-ethic, tenacity, responsibility, team skills, organizational and planning ability, cultural fit, and decision-making. When you hire based on qualities that have no relevance (as all companies everywhere do), you might as well get some monkeys to throw darts on the wall. it'll speed up the process! http://www.adlerconcepts.com/resources/column/newsletter/random_chance_and_how_managers.php http://www.adlerconcepts.com/resources/column/newsletter/ran...
    - zasz 15y ago
      I don't think either of those two blog posts support your point that randomly picking candidates is as good as actively trying to select for good ones. If none of the candidates applying to YC were good enough to pass some minimal threshold, pg and co. just wouldn't take anyone, unlike the horrible companies in your links who will always take what they think is the top 1%. I think your last sentence doesn't make sense either. Since when did technical competence not count for anything? Both competence and teamwork are necessary, but neither alone is sufficient. Point is, randomly picking candidates is a crap idea.
taariqlewis 15y ago
We need to find our own patterns of success and think outside the YC box.
- allanscu 15y ago
  YC should never be the end of your dream. They're not always right (and they admit it). Keep on trucking along!
dmk23 15y ago
If scoring of YC applications is anything like upvoting/downvoting of HN comments I do not think anyone should link their self-worth to getting rejected. My impression from talking with various YC partners at the Open House / Startup School was that the ones most qualified to evaluate my application have not seen it. But at the scale YC is operating now this sort of thing seems inevitable. Moral of the story: never put all eggs in one basket, have Plan B, C, D, E ... ZZZ, preferably around being able to fund yourself with revenue, while still scaling your product business. Just like us :)
- onwardly 15y ago
  Having plans B, D, E ... ZZZ around is an incredible piece of advice from one who has experienced it. Stay alive, brother.
larrys 15y ago
"it's practically certain that groups we rejected will go on to create successful startups. If you do, we'd appreciate it if you'd send us an email telling us about it;" A little like writing to the girl/guy that rejected you with great news that you've landed in Hollywood. By the time you get there they will know it. Anyway, by "successful" what do they mean anyway? Someone else funded you? (go to crunchbase). Or you've gone public? Or you've sold the business? Or you're on the front of the WSJ? Isn't the info they are looking for in all the obvious places? Patronizing to suggest "tell us about your success" as if they can't go to the trouble to uncover it themselves somehow.
- earbitscom 15y ago
  Do you know how many of the startups change dramatically or, at minimum, change names (or don't even have one yet)? After reviewing 2000+ applications, do you really expect them, upon seeing a TechCrunch post 2 years later to remember that was one of their applicants? You can trust that they really do mean they'd like to know about it, and if I know them, they'd actually go look up the application to see if there is any way they can avoid missing that opportunity in the future.
  - larrys 15y ago
    "that was one of their applicants" The idea can change but people's names don't change. "upon seeing a TechCrunch post 2 years later " The definition of "success" in your mind?
    - earbitscom 15y ago
      The over 4k applications they see use HN usernames. You're the one that said CrunchBase. The idea that they're supposed to monitor for every startup founder they ever rejected to pop up a few years later is retarded.
      - larrys 15y ago
        "they're supposed to monitor for every startup founder they ever rejected to pop up a few years later is retarded." If they are interested in the information they can get the information as it is out there. So they shouldn't put any effort in? Poor them. So many applicants. So much work to cross reference. "The over 4k applications they see use HN usernames." People don't use their real names on applications? For each founder, please list: YC username; name; age http://www.allhatter.com/archive/index.php/t-193.html http://www.allhatter.com/archive/index.php/t-193.html
24pfilms 15y ago
Well, I had applied to StartupChile and got accepted, but wanted to see how my luck would turn if I applied the same startup to YC. I would of prefered to be in SF with the great mentors and angels, but hey StartupChile give you $40k with no take of equity.
- Achshar 15y ago
  you applied this session? are the results out? i applied too but didn't receive any email..
  - 24pfilms 15y ago
    I had applied for the previous round. I am heading there in early Jan/2012.
    - Achshar 15y ago
      wait, if the people from previous round are going there in jan, when will this round's people go there than?
      - _eg 15y ago
        February 29th or March 28th, 2012
        24pfilms 15y ago
        January 16/2012
        Achshar 15y ago
        well that's when you (from previous round) are going.. i got an email yesterday from them confirming my submission and saying that the results will be out December 15. So Jan 16 would be a little early imo, for all the visa and paperwork will probably take longer. feb/March sounds more reasonable. :)
shawnc 15y ago
While its a bummer to get this sort of rejection letter, I somehow think that if one of the ones that didn't get in didn't keep moving forward after this - deserve to had not gotten in anyway. This absolutely shouldnt stop you.
betterlabs 15y ago
Couldn't agree more. Having said that I feel these are taken way too seriously/emotionally and it is important to understand that you can build your own startup to product/market fit, revenue and profitability whether or not you get into YCombinator or other incubators. YC and other incubators are a great help, but should not be considered a ticket to (possible) success.
yonasb 15y ago
Totally agree, very classy. And that Why Not link is great. Best rejection I've ever gotten
ctide 15y ago
How old is that why not link? If they're interviewing 70-80 groups, doesn't that mean that nearly everyone who interviews gets in? I mean, last group was over 60, wasn't it?
- cdeonier 15y ago
  During a previous Q&A session the day before Startup School '11, I believe pg mentioned they interviewed ~170 groups the last batch.
par 15y ago
The best thing about applying to YC is getting to really think about a lot of great questions in the app, it is win/win regardless of the outcome.
Alexbtlv 15y ago
One of the best rejection I've ever gotten. Since I applying for this round YC, we came up with new amazing idea. I agree that our first time application was poor, it was just an idea without working beta. I'm sure that we should increase our efficiency, it doesn't mean that should work harder. Just more efficiency!

96 points by 24pfilms 15y ago

allanscu 15y ago

If you're hungry enough, being rejected may be the best thing that will ever happen to you. Don't let a YC Reject letter stop you from continuing your dream.

wuster 15y ago
I'm possibly rationalizing here, but some of the NOs I've received in my life have led to decisions and outcomes that I know ended up being the better path. So, definitely not something to feel down about, it's a tough YC class to get into. Anyone who think they got jibbed because of supposedly amazing creds should congratulate YC that the applicant pool is so strong that so many other applicants are at least equal in ability. Anyway, like Zuck said at Startup School - just go F'ing build it and prove them wrong if you can - it's so damn cheap to put out an MVP these days. I know we will continue our experiments and move methodically through our own process of trying to build a viable business, regardless of YC's opinion. I am pretty sure this is what pg would encourage as well.

gbsi 15y ago

True. Just got mine and just want to work harder.

dotmatrix 15y ago

A friend of mine who completed YC told me that there was a guy who got rejected 4 or 5 times before getting accepted. Just remember always be positive and keep working hard :) Cheers!

RussRomStanBety 15y ago
Did he submit a new project each time?
- dotmatrix 15y ago
  Yes I believe so, that is key.
  - yesimahuman 15y ago
    I applied twice with a previous idea. Rejected once, interviewed and rejected another time.
    - RussRomStanBety 15y ago
      who was in the interview room with you ?
      - yesimahuman 15y ago
        I remember all of the partners being there.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Don't YC claim to choose teams instead of ideas?
    - earbitscom 15y ago
      Maybe the change in idea, or the progress, showed the true colors of the team better.

maeon3 15y ago

I'm not sure why people beat themselves up so much for not passing a candidate filter where teams of people select a candidate from a list based on various criteria and instinct. It has been mathematically demonstrated that these processes fail at doing a better job than throwing a dart at a wall containing a list of all the candidates. When I get a rejection letter for anything, I shrug and treat it like losing a raffle. I don't sweat it, the ticket candidate selection process is not based on merit, it's based on randomness.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
...a filter which has been mathematically demonstrated to fail at doing better than random chance at picking good candidates Where could I read more about this?
- maeon3 15y ago
  Read Joel's epic post here describing the phenomenon: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html The 'dead sea effect' is caused by this phenomenon: http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/ http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-d... Hiring managers get the technical competency part right but they completely miss the most important things: work-ethic, tenacity, responsibility, team skills, organizational and planning ability, cultural fit, and decision-making. When you hire based on qualities that have no relevance (as all companies everywhere do), you might as well get some monkeys to throw darts on the wall. it'll speed up the process! http://www.adlerconcepts.com/resources/column/newsletter/random_chance_and_how_managers.php http://www.adlerconcepts.com/resources/column/newsletter/ran...
  - zasz 15y ago
    I don't think either of those two blog posts support your point that randomly picking candidates is as good as actively trying to select for good ones. If none of the candidates applying to YC were good enough to pass some minimal threshold, pg and co. just wouldn't take anyone, unlike the horrible companies in your links who will always take what they think is the top 1%. I think your last sentence doesn't make sense either. Since when did technical competence not count for anything? Both competence and teamwork are necessary, but neither alone is sufficient. Point is, randomly picking candidates is a crap idea.

taariqlewis 15y ago

We need to find our own patterns of success and think outside the YC box.

allanscu 15y ago
YC should never be the end of your dream. They're not always right (and they admit it). Keep on trucking along!

dmk23 15y ago

If scoring of YC applications is anything like upvoting/downvoting of HN comments I do not think anyone should link their self-worth to getting rejected. My impression from talking with various YC partners at the Open House / Startup School was that the ones most qualified to evaluate my application have not seen it. But at the scale YC is operating now this sort of thing seems inevitable. Moral of the story: never put all eggs in one basket, have Plan B, C, D, E ... ZZZ, preferably around being able to fund yourself with revenue, while still scaling your product business. Just like us :)

onwardly 15y ago
Having plans B, D, E ... ZZZ around is an incredible piece of advice from one who has experienced it. Stay alive, brother.

larrys 15y ago

"it's practically certain that groups we rejected will go on to create successful startups. If you do, we'd appreciate it if you'd send us an email telling us about it;" A little like writing to the girl/guy that rejected you with great news that you've landed in Hollywood. By the time you get there they will know it. Anyway, by "successful" what do they mean anyway? Someone else funded you? (go to crunchbase). Or you've gone public? Or you've sold the business? Or you're on the front of the WSJ? Isn't the info they are looking for in all the obvious places? Patronizing to suggest "tell us about your success" as if they can't go to the trouble to uncover it themselves somehow.

earbitscom 15y ago
Do you know how many of the startups change dramatically or, at minimum, change names (or don't even have one yet)? After reviewing 2000+ applications, do you really expect them, upon seeing a TechCrunch post 2 years later to remember that was one of their applicants? You can trust that they really do mean they'd like to know about it, and if I know them, they'd actually go look up the application to see if there is any way they can avoid missing that opportunity in the future.
- larrys 15y ago
  "that was one of their applicants" The idea can change but people's names don't change. "upon seeing a TechCrunch post 2 years later " The definition of "success" in your mind?
  - earbitscom 15y ago
    The over 4k applications they see use HN usernames. You're the one that said CrunchBase. The idea that they're supposed to monitor for every startup founder they ever rejected to pop up a few years later is retarded.
    - larrys 15y ago
      "they're supposed to monitor for every startup founder they ever rejected to pop up a few years later is retarded." If they are interested in the information they can get the information as it is out there. So they shouldn't put any effort in? Poor them. So many applicants. So much work to cross reference. "The over 4k applications they see use HN usernames." People don't use their real names on applications? For each founder, please list: YC username; name; age http://www.allhatter.com/archive/index.php/t-193.html http://www.allhatter.com/archive/index.php/t-193.html

24pfilms 15y ago

Well, I had applied to StartupChile and got accepted, but wanted to see how my luck would turn if I applied the same startup to YC. I would of prefered to be in SF with the great mentors and angels, but hey StartupChile give you $40k with no take of equity.

Achshar 15y ago
you applied this session? are the results out? i applied too but didn't receive any email..
- 24pfilms 15y ago
  I had applied for the previous round. I am heading there in early Jan/2012.
  - Achshar 15y ago
    wait, if the people from previous round are going there in jan, when will this round's people go there than?
    - _eg 15y ago
      February 29th or March 28th, 2012
      - 24pfilms 15y ago
        January 16/2012
        Achshar 15y ago
        well that's when you (from previous round) are going.. i got an email yesterday from them confirming my submission and saying that the results will be out December 15. So Jan 16 would be a little early imo, for all the visa and paperwork will probably take longer. feb/March sounds more reasonable. :)

shawnc 15y ago

While its a bummer to get this sort of rejection letter, I somehow think that if one of the ones that didn't get in didn't keep moving forward after this - deserve to had not gotten in anyway. This absolutely shouldnt stop you.

betterlabs 15y ago

Couldn't agree more. Having said that I feel these are taken way too seriously/emotionally and it is important to understand that you can build your own startup to product/market fit, revenue and profitability whether or not you get into YCombinator or other incubators. YC and other incubators are a great help, but should not be considered a ticket to (possible) success.

yonasb 15y ago

Totally agree, very classy. And that Why Not link is great. Best rejection I've ever gotten

ctide 15y ago

How old is that why not link? If they're interviewing 70-80 groups, doesn't that mean that nearly everyone who interviews gets in? I mean, last group was over 60, wasn't it?

cdeonier 15y ago
During a previous Q&A session the day before Startup School '11, I believe pg mentioned they interviewed ~170 groups the last batch.

par 15y ago

The best thing about applying to YC is getting to really think about a lot of great questions in the app, it is win/win regardless of the outcome.

Alexbtlv 15y ago

One of the best rejection I've ever gotten. Since I applying for this round YC, we came up with new amazing idea. I agree that our first time application was poor, it was just an idea without working beta. I'm sure that we should increase our efficiency, it doesn't mean that should work harder. Just more efficiency!